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Hindu Dharma Acharya Sabha: Piece on the global chess-board -5 
Radha Rajan
05 Feb 2010

For every Hindu, Kurukshetra is here and now

Hindu nationalists must keep their eyes pinned on the issue of religious conversion. In the end, for Hindus, it is not just about world order, but the content and character of the world. It is the Hindu understanding of what constitutes dharma that determines the fundamentals of Hindu traditions, which includes tradition of statecraft –

 

-        Realizing God is not the goal of Hindu dharma; it is to know the self, and the place of the self in Creation which includes in the main the non-human world; that knowledge can be called truth or god or it can remain nameless

-        Therefore there is no jealous, intolerant God who like the lion in the Panchatantra will not allow another God in the territory he has marked as his domain

-        Hindus believe every individual can traverse the path of his choice to attain this supreme knowledge

-        Therefore the very idea that someone or something is the sole repository of the ultimate truth is the very antithesis to dharma

-        Therefore the idea of one true god, one true religion, one true prophet has no place in Hindu dharma

-        Therefore Hindus felt no need to convert peoples of other faiths to their faith

-        Therefore conquering territory in the name of one true god, one true religion and one true prophet was never and is not the Hindu way; religion was about knowing the self, not about conquering territory for some fantasy called kingdom of god, be it the Christian or Muslim god

-        However, Hindu kings and Hindu states whose primary responsibility is dharma paripaalana, to protect and uphold dharma, have always waged war against kings and states that violated dharma, subdued them, and restored the nation back to dharma

 

Religious conversion is thus a violation of dharma and Hindus are obliged to destroy this asura. One angry bhakta of Pujya Swami Dayananda Saraswati sent the following excerpt of his talk delivered in Montreal, little realizing he was only proving the writer’s point that Hindus lack political sense and have no conception of the threat posed to us by politics of religion. It is important to understand this talk to understand why the writer believes the HDAS is being derailed from its path and is being made a piece on the global chess board, where the core objective of the battle is to keep only the monotheist god on the board.

 

-         “The Human Rights UN charter has the article number 18, which talks about the right to change one’s religion. If one wants to change one’s religion, one must not be denied that freedom. One can change one’s religion in private, and in community, and one should be able to profess one’s religion. It is a good thing that we have in the Charter of this global body, a clause protecting religious freedom, but then this freedom, like any freedom, has certain responsibility.

 

-        Therefore, I have the right to be a Christian, a Muslim, a Parsi, or a Hindu. As it is, it is my responsibility to see that I do not destroy the Christian culture and religion; I cannot retain the culture and tradition unless I retain the Christian. You cannot protect Islam without protecting a Muslim. To protect is to allow the person to have his or her form of prayer, tradition, and culture. You cannot protect dharma without protecting the dharmi. A live culture or religion is protected by protecting the one who lives it. A practitioner of Islam or Christianity has a right to practice and preach his or her religion. Whatever your rights, I will defend them at any forum, but this cannot give you a sanction to have a program of aggression and destruction”.

 

This really is the crux of the problem. The fundamental responsibility of any Acharya or Guru is to protect Hindu dharma and the dharmi. Protecting dharma also entails destroying the Asura who is not only violating dharma but is threatening to destroy it; the Asura must therefore be destroyed or permanently subdued. Acharyas and Gurus, and by extension the Acharya Sabha are not required to be politically correct, are not required to genuflect to the United Nations or any global or international body; and are not mandated to sing dulcet tunes for acceptability in international forums.

 

Pujya Swamiji knows that Dharma and Dharmi cannot be protected if he declares that it is his responsibility to see that he does not destroy the Christian culture and religion. Swamiji knows that if Christianity and Islam live in this world, then other religions and other peoples have to die. Extermination of other faiths and nations is the end objective of both Islam and the Church. If Swamiji commits himself to protecting Christians and Muslims, he has to protect them on Hindu bhumi too; this is protecting the Asura, not destroying him. Dharma paripaalana and protecting the Asura are self-contradictory objectives and untenable in reason and logic.

 

Our Acharyas and Gurus are mandated only to speak the truth when and if they have to speak at all; and the truth is Islam and the Church are Asuric religions because they are the very antithesis to dharma. These religions, which pose a threat to the survival of Hindus and Hindu dharma on Hindu bhumi, have to be either destroyed or effectively subdued. If Pujya Swamiji really believes in all that he spoke in Montreal, Hindu nationalists have real cause for concern about the effectiveness of the HDAS to protect dharma and dharmi in this country.

 

“Whatever your rights, I will defend them in any forum” cannot be an article of faith for one whose primary responsibility is to protect dharma on dharma bhumi. Swamiji would have electrified his audience and sent shock-waves around the world if, as Convener HDAS, he had declared that Islam and Christianity can exist with dignity on Hindu bhumi only and only if the Church agrees to stop converting non-Hindus in India and if Islam agrees to live in Hindu-majority India as Hindus live in Muslim-majority countries. Swamiji would have given voice to all Hindus had he stated that HDAS would pressure the Indian government to put in place a national law to ban religious conversion to the Abrahamic faiths and disallow foreign remittances to Muslim and Christian religious organizations and NGOs.  

 

Now let us contrast Pujya Swamiji’s Montreal statement to the bombshell that Pujya Kanchi Acharya dropped at the inter-faith dialogue in Mumbai in June 2009. Taking the Lariano inter-faith resolution, “In the area of humanitarian service in times of need, what we can do together, we should not do separately” with total seriousness, Pujya Kanchi Acharya told the shell-shocked Vatican representative that all monies coming into the country from foreign Churches and western countries should be placed in a common pool in this country. The monies thus collected ought to be used in the service of all peoples without distinction of religions. The ball is now in the Vatican court. What we can do together we should not do separately must begin with the foreign funds that Churches abroad send to Churches at home.

http://www.vigilonline.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1125&Itemid=72

 


The writer has it from the highest authority that the resolutions passed on 11 January at Hyderabad had already been drafted by 7 January, and a draft copy of the resolutions was given to at least one Acharya for perusal. This means the resolutions had been drafted before the issues were discussed by the Acharyas and Gurus in the HDAS.

 

The resolutions mention the UN special convention on human rights titled “Faith in Human Rights” in The Hague, Netherlands in December 2008. The press-note released on the proceedings of the HDAS and the HDAS resolution referring to the UN convention read as follows –

 

-        “Elaborating further he said that, as the Convener of Acharya Sabha, he was invited to the UN Universal Declaration of Human Rights on 10th December 2008 at The Hague, Netherlands. There, at the Conference he was able to have a declaration passed that it would be a serous Human Rights violation if one interferes with the individual’s “freedom to have, to retain and to adopt a religion or belief of one’s personal choice without coercion or inducement”. The Acharya Sabha considers this “2008 Faith in Human Rights Statement” signed by all religious leaders as a major success for the Hindu Community at large, which has been at the receiving end of conversions for decades now”.

 

-        The Acharya Sabha meet in Hyderabad will therefore address the way forward on the issues that are on top of every Hindu’s mind.

       1. How to attain the Right to Religion which is consistent with the “UN 2008 Faith in Human Rights Resolution.” Clearly conversion based on derogatory statements about Hinduism or coercion or inducement will have to be stopped by strong amendment in our laws. (Press-note 1)

 

-        1c) Participation in an UN Conference in December 2008 at The Hague where the UN Declaration on Human Rights was re-visited, on behalf of the Acharya Sabha. Some important changes were made in the final document to describe “Religious Freedom”; this was to reflect the concerns of the Acharya Sabha and Hindu Society on the “right to religious conversion” by Abrahamic religions. (HDAS Resolutions, 11 January, 2010)

 

The Hague convention in December 2008 finds mention in the HDAS resolutions because at this convention, Pujya Swamiji who participated on behalf of the HDAS and all Hindus, succeeded in getting the gathering to re-visit the UN Declaration on Human Rights. The press-note cited earlier also declares that the resolutions of “Faith in Human Rights” signed by all religious leaders gathered there “as a major success for the Hindu community at large”. This is a significant claim and deserves great attention.

 

Before we examine The Hague convention, we must consider the serious charge that Swamiji is making against religious leaders of the Abrahamic faiths at other inter-faith and multi-faith dialogues and conferences. Swamiji had this to say in Montreal –

 

-        “In all conferences I have attended, I am asked to help with the committee that drafts resolutions. I always have asked for the term “mutual respect among all religions” to be included as one of the resolutions, but always this mutual respect clause is struck down, and is replaced by “freedom of religion.” The freedom of religion is understood by some as the freedom to preach and convert with an evangelistic program. They feel they are mandated to convert, and they think they are saving souls”.

 

The Convener of the Acharya Sabha admits that “freedom of religion” is interpreted by the Church as the fundamental right to convert non-Christians. The idea that an individual can change religions is an Abrahamic religious concept. As mentioned earlier, non-Christian, non-Islamic and pre-Christian, pre-Islamic religions do not subscribe to the idea that a person can change his religion. In Hindu understanding, just as one cannot change one’s mother, one can also not change one’s language, religion and nationality which an individual inherits as his timeless legacy at birth.

 

Islam and Christianity have occupied by violence the territories that belonged to other religions; these two Abrahamic religions can therefore not claim any country as their homeland. They are invaders, usurpers and settlers wherever they are located today. These two religions came into being only through religious conversion. And what these predatory religions have usurped with force and violence, they are not going to give up without a bloody war. It is time Hindus realize and accept this fact.

 

Thus clause number 18 in the United Nations Declaration of Human Rights, drafted in 1948, gives a bizarre proposition the high status of fundamental human rights, but which is totally compatible with the nature of the Abrahamic religions.

 

Article 15

(1)   Everyone has the right to a nationality.

(2) No one shall be arbitrarily deprived of his nationality nor denied the right to change his nationality.

 

Article 18

(1)   Everyone has the right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion; this right includes freedom to change his religion or belief

 

Nation is different from country; nationality is different from citizenship; and nationalism is different from patriotism. These distinctions are rooted in the fundamental distinction of ‘us’ and ‘them’; who belongs and who does not belong. The Vatican knows this and so do the White Christian countries; but it serves the political objectives of their religion to make them interchangeable concepts, and if the concepts defy interchange, then outlaw the distinction as the pope did in 1995 at the UNGA.

 

-  “We need to clarify the essential difference between an unhealthy form of nationalism, which teaches contempt for other nations or cultures, and patriotism, which is a proper love of one’s country. True patriotism never seeks to advance the well-being of one’s own nation at the expense of others. For in the end, this would harm one’s own nation as well”.

 

It is unnecessary to dissect this obviously untenable papal assertion. Sonia Gandhi may be an Indian citizen but she is an Italian national. If it is possible for an individual to change his nationality, then what is African-American, Latin-American, Indian-American, Native-American, even when they are all American citizens?

 

Hindus must confront the Abrahamic world and assert that we do not subscribe to religious conversion, so the only change that will be permitted on Hindu bhumi is for converts to return to religions native to this bhumi. This forceful assertion, in one stroke will render the preposterous idea of “freedom of religion” and all its attendant baggage meaningless in this Hindu nation. As stated earlier, Hindu Dharmacharyas do not need to make politically correct or internationally acceptable statements.

 

Going back to the convention on “Faith in Human Rights” in The Hague, in December 2008, it has been claimed Swamiji made a significant intervention to the UN Charter of Human Rights favourable to Hindus. But is this claim true?

 

First, the writer is open to correction but the UN webpage on Human Rights does not mention this convention at all. The text of the resolutions signed by the group of multi-religious leaders is also not displayed prominently, if it is displayed at all. If The Hague convention made a significant amendment to the “freedom of religion and conscience” clause in the charter of human rights, the clause which is cited by the Church as legal mandate to convert non-Christians, then the amendment does not show in the original charter, either in the body of the main charter, or as a separate amendment text.

The text of the resolutions of “Faith in Human Rights” is however uploaded on the HDAS website and reproduced on the Vigil website.

http://www.vigilonline.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1278&Itemid=1

 

The Hyderabad HDAS resolutions state that the 1948 Charter of Human Rights was “revisited” and that some important changes were made to the final draft of the resolutions passed at The Hague. So, changes were made only to the final draft of the resolutions at The Hague convention, not the original charter, which remains as it was. This should not surprise us because as Swamiji himself said in Montreal, the Abrahamic religions will not permit any change in the “freedom of religion” clause which is their international legal license to destroy other religions and eventually annihilate all non-Christian nations.

 

The said clause in The Hague statement reads as follows –

-        8. We note with serious concern the increase of intolerance in matters relating to religion or belief, of cases of incitement to religious hatred, overt or covert. While emphasising the importance of the freedom of expression, we deplore portrayals of objects of religious veneration which fail to be properly respectful of the sensibilities of believers. We consider the freedom to have, to retain and to adopt a religion or belief of one’s personal choice, without coercion or inducement, to be an undeniable right. Furthermore, the freedom to manifest one’s religion or belief in any form of worship, observance, practice and teaching may only be subject to carefully defined limitations consistent with generally accepted principles of international law.

 


This is not going to deter Islam or the Church even an iota from their ultimate goal to Islamise and Christianise the world. The words ‘without coercion and inducement’ are totally meaningless and self-defeating. The person or persons who drafted the HDAS resolutions for 2010 must tell us why the Pope or any other Christian cannot repeat the same clause, word for word and interpret it in their favour; only they will now say that re-conversion of Christians and Muslims to Hinduism and other religions native to this soil, as per Resolution 8 of The Hague “Faith in Human Rights” convention is violation of the UN charter.

 

It is inconceivable that a Hindu religious leader would be allowed to shake even a single brick of this international edifice. Consider the list of participants which itself is revealing – three Muslim clerics (two from Iraq) representing three Islamic denominations we may presume, three Rabbis representing the Jewish people, two Buddhists including the Dalai Lama, one Hindu Guru, one Tao religious leader, one Native American Elder and seven members of the Christian religious Hierarchy! If any Hindu had any doubts about the religious affiliation and bias of the United Nations, these doubts must now be laid to rest.

 


One participant who caught the writer’s eye was His Excellency Mgr. Dr. Gerard J.N de Korte, Bishop of Groningen, The Netherlands, responsible for Commission Justicia et Pax, The Netherlands. The writer wonders if Swamiji knew of the shenanigans of Justicia et Pax in India and if he did, what did Swamiji and the good reverend talk about over tea. The Vigil book on NGOs made a pointed reference to Justicia et Pax for not only meddling in the internal affairs of Hindu society, but also internationalising them with the sole objective of defaming Hindus and Hinduism.

 

-        Church-backed and Church-funded NGOs focus exclusively on dalit localities and women’s issues. The dalit issue has been internationalised precisely because of the involvement of local and foreign churches in so-called ‘dalit welfare’. ‘Dalit’ is a 20th century Christian missionary construct with explicit political overtones and objectives.

 

-        As pointed out earlier, this project receives funds from the churches in the Netherlands. Cordaid, ICCO and Indian Committee of the Netherlands are Dutch Christian NGOs which actively campaign against the Hindus in the guise of dalit human rights with the European Parliament.

 

-        Justicia et Pax is the world-wide organisation for ‘justice and peace’ of the Catholic Church. It aims to inspire and mobilise Catholics to commit themselves to human rights, and advises and supports bishops and church organisations in the area of justice and peace.

 

-        Justicia et Pax works to improve the miserable living conditions of the dalits (untouchables) in India. Together with the Landelijke India Werkgroep, CMC and ICCO, Justicia et Pax has founded the Dalit Network Netherlands (DNN). In October the campaign ‘Stop Caste Discrimination – Support the Dalits’ was launched. In its lobbying work the DNN mainly focused on the Dutch EU Presidency.

http://www.vigilonline.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=904&Itemid=118&limit=1&limitstart=12

 


There is nothing, absolutely nothing for Hindus in these inter-faith and multi-faith dialogues and conferences. Sitting around the table with powerful Asuras may give Hindus a sense of importance and lull Hindus into a false sense of comfort that our enemies can be won over to our way of thought and worldview. This is Gandhian folly.

 


The resolutions of HDAS 2010 point to the direction in which this body is headed. The resolutions can be summarized briefly under these broad categories –

-        Listing all international inter-faith conferences attended by Pujya Swami Dayananda Saraswati as Convener HDAS

-        All Hindu issues which have merited the personal attention of Dr. Subramanian Swamy and future measures which will give him an even greater role in the affairs of HDAS

-        Mention of spasmodic and innocuous activities like compiling and publishing the first edition of the Acharya Sabha directory, publishing a news letter, protesting Hydro-dams on Upper Ganga and Bhagirathi and the like

-        Reference to the resources available at Sastra University to set up a center for Hindu Heritage (Sastra university is one of the Chennai clique’s expanding circles)

-        Intention to create an international body like the United Nations to deal with religious and cultural affairs of the world

 


The last claim is mind-boggling for its pretentiousness. If seven Christians can be arraigned against one Hindu at The Hague to make sure that the Hindu does not so much as add a full-stop or delete a comma to the prepared text, does the Acharya Sabha really think the powerful and well-organized Abrahamic religions and their state power will allow Hindus to create an international body which would diminish their power and influence over world affairs?

 


Let us remember that Malaysia’s pioneering efforts to create an Asian Monetary Fund on the lines of the International Monetary Fund for Asia, which bore the brunt of IMF’s role as lender of last resort in the wake of the South and South-East Asian countries, is yet to gather momentum.

 


The resolutions leave us numb with disappointment and despair. Bringing over 150 Acharyas, Mathathipathis, Mahamandaleswars, Akharas and Adeenams under one roof once every two years is a momentous event calling for stupendous effort. The HDAS has convened four times since its creation, but what does it have to show for itself?

 


This reminds us of the mammoth prayer meetings that Gandhi convened every day unfailingly for several years, across the country; in villages, towns and cities. Tens and thousands of people, sometimes hundreds of thousands of people gathered everyday to see him, to feel his presence, to hear him talk. They all assembled to see and listen to Gandhi because they thought he was leading the nation to freedom.

 


In the end Gandhi led the nation only to vivisection, because he did not put these mammoth gatherings to any purposeful use. He did not use the prayer meetings to mobilize Hindu society to deal with an ascendant Muslim League; he did not involve the people directly in the freedom movement; he did not give the people a sense of Hinduness; he did not show them the true face of their enemies. He told them to spin the charkha while he did the politics; he led them in inter-faith prayer songs; they all sang “Ishwar Allah tero naam” and went back home satisfied that they had seen the man who would lead them to freedom.

 


As Aurobindo remarked, “Our beginnings are mighty” and there it stops. There is no purposeful movement thereafter towards a defined goal. The HDAS is in very real danger of becoming yet another mighty beginning losing steam and becoming a shell of its original self – a talking shop with no intention of dealing effectively with the two most menacing threats to Hindus - religious conversion and foreign funds.

 


To think our revered acharyas are brought together to pass resolutions on international conferences, to eulogise Dr. Subramanian Swamy and to talk of shoes and ships and sealing wax and cabbages and kings. There is also the real possibility of a new clique forming around a new cult figure. The HDAS and the Hindu Service and Spiritual Fair are great and timely moves to organize Hindu society. If this great coming together must be put to effective use, the first thing to be done is to jettison individuals and groups seeking to derail the HDAS and attempting to link the HDAS with the GFCH. 

 


Hindu society faces a real threat to its survival. For every Hindu, the time for sweet talk is over. Kurukshetra is here and now. The Asuras must be destroyed or subdued. The HDAS cannot be allowed to go the way of the Indian National Congress. It has to measure up to the threat or find itself becoming irrelevant. Pujya Kanchi Acharya who as late as the evening of 8 January was discussing the issues he intended to raise at the HDAS, for some reason best known to himself, decided against going to the Sabha on the 9th. The Convener HDAS would do well to sense the warning signals.

 

(Concluded)

The writer is editor, www.vigilonline.com 
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  User Comments:
 
  A BRILLIANT LOGICAL EXPOSITION OF THE ISSUES AND CHALLENGES FACING HINDUS AND ALL INDIANS; ALSO ACTION GUIDANCE. I, AS A COMMITTED HINDU , KEEN STUDENT OF COMPARATIVE RELIGION, EASTERN AND WESTERN PHILOSOPHY AND GLOBAL POLITICS, AND A FORMER INDIAN AMBASSADOR, I APPEAL TO SWAMI DAYANANDJI TO GIVE A DETAILED RESPONSE TO RADHAJI'S ANALYSIS IN THIS FORUM. THIS WOULD BE IN THE FINEST TRADITION OF OUR GURUS LIKE SHANKARACHARYA AND WOULD BE WELCOMED BY ALL HINDUS. HE OWES IT TO THEM. I SUGGEST ALL RADHA'S ARTICLES WITH READER COMMENTS BE SENT OFFICIALLY BY VIJAYVAANI TO THE SWAMIJI FOR A RESPONSE. THE ISSUES ARE JUST TOO SERIOUS AND URGENT FOR HINDUS TO BE GLOSSED OVER. ========  
  AVADHUTH  
  05 Feb 2010  
   
 
  HDAS MUST CALL AN EMERGENCY MEET TO DEBATE THE ISSUES RAISED BY RADHAJI ----------------------------------------- THIS IS IN CONTINUATION OF MY PREVIOUS COMMENT ----MILLIONS OF HINDUS MAY BE LOOKING TO HDAS TO PROTECT HINDU INTERESTS AND PROVIDE GUIDANCE. THE ISSUES RAISED BY RADHAJI ARE OF SUCH GRAVITY THAT SWAMI DAYANANDJI MUST URGENTLY CONVENE A MEETING OF ALL THE MEMBERS TO DEBATE THE ISSUES. RADHAJI SHOULD BE INVITED TO CONTRIBUTE INPUTS. SOME WAY SHOULD BE FOUND TO ENSURE THAT ALL HDAS MEMBERS INDIVIDUALLY GET HER ARTICLES ON THE SUBJECT OF HINDU INTERESTS.  
  AVADHUTH  
  05 Feb 2010  
   
 
  @Radha Rajan - Please stop giving new roles and responsibilities to our Dharma and the Dharmi. Our Vedas, Upanishads and other scriptures explicitly tell that it is the duty of a king to protect every citizen, even the one who does not believe in the Vedas (which means in this age non-Hindus). So stop trying to make militants out of our religion. We need smart thinking to counter these threats and not foolish a militant mind trying to wipe out all other religions and cultures. You imagining and asking for the wipe out of Islam and Christianity from our country and the world is highly immature. Tell me how do you intend to achieve this goal? Tell me which traditional or modern Hindu religious head wants to wipe out all other religions from India and the world? And how do you expect HDAS to work in this regard. It is sheer nonsense. And all the support you have got in this forum are from people who just sit and talk and type and do nothing else. And the most illogical thing that you have written is telling that it is the duty of Gurus and Acharyas to destroy Asuras. I do not know from which scripture of our Dharma you have quoted this. I thought all these days that the roles of Acahryas and Gurus are totally different. Next thing you will ask the Acahryas and Gurus to do is to fight against the terrorists carrying weapons in thier hands.  
  S Vasan  
  05 Feb 2010  
   
 
  "Hindus must confront the Abrahamic world and assert that we do not subscribe to religious conversion, so the only change that will be permitted on Hindu bhumi is for converts to return to religions native to this bhumi. This forceful assertion, in one stroke will render the preposterous idea of “freedom of religion” and all its attendant baggage meaningless in this Hindu nation." - Ya right. Absolute comedy. The moment we say something, the entire world is going to listen to us and stop their missionary and terrorist activities. Please take a break. You are talking as if our religious heads have got so much powers and authority, so that the moment they include or remove certain statments in the agreements, the whole world or other religous heads are going to agree to it and obey it. Please stop day dreaming. Let people try at the first place. If you are not happy with HDAS, dont follow it. It is not causing any harm to any Hindu. No Hindu can be forced to follow a particular guru or an organsiation. Understand that first.  
  S Vasan  
  05 Feb 2010  
   
 
  NO Vasan, YOU understand - that the Hindu Gurus should NOT be seen on platforms where right to convert is upheld in the name of Freedom of Religion!!! That is all. They must give up the craving for free air tickets, limousines at airports, and 7-star hotels at the other end - for photo-opportunities with the enemies of Hindu Dharma. Stay home and fight the war at home, or have the honesty to say what exactly they stand for - conversions in this case. You cannot be a Dharma Guru and go and surrender the bhakta to the anti-dharma preacher. So when they achieve NOTHING for the Dharma and the Bhakta - what do they go international for? Regards.  
  Shraddha  
  05 Feb 2010  
   
 
  The reference to Kurukshetra is interesting. Had posted this recently on Sandeep's blog- "The clash of civilizations is actually emerging. It is the clash between the civilizations that were indigenous to all lands arrayed alongside mother Nature against the totally uncivilizing western culture that attempted to decimate all those civilizations and mother Nature, during the past two millenniums. The centuries of vanavas and agyatavas are over. The pancha pandavas, the indigenous cultures of Asia, Africa, Americas, Australia and Europe are seeking just retribution. The UN and other world bodies are erring like the pitamaha. Earth is the kurukshetra in this mahabharata war. Get Sri Krishna as your guide in this war. Get realization, brahma jnana."  
  Incognito  
  05 Feb 2010  
   
 
  Consciousness of dharma is not hereditary. For example, N Ram probably knows as much about dharma as Osama. Similarly, Mahesh Bhatt and Manmohan Singh probably knows only as much about dharma as does Sonia. On the other hand, APJ Kalam might have more dharma consciousness than all of these people combined. Take the case of Prahlada. Though born to asuric Hiranyakashipu, he was totaly dharmic. On the other hand, Duryodhana and Dussasana were the grandsons of none other than Veda Vyasa, the compiler of vedas! Point being, EFFORTS TO ORGANISE ON THE BASIS OF 'RELIGION' OF THE PARENTS IS ABSURD. Just as calling somebody a 'brahmana' merely on the basis of birth is absurd. dharma transcends geographic boundaries. Therefore terms that define people on the basis of locality is also inadequate. Thus the term "Hindu" is inappropriate on both counts- both as an indicator of parental religion as well as indicator of region, when used for individuals who are conscious of dharma. Further, it is also not a word rooted in samskritam, the mother of all indian languages. >>>>"it is to know the self, and the place of the self in Creation which includes in the main the non-human world; that knowledge can be called truth or god or it can remain nameless"<<<<____ excellent. Similarly, a person who is conscious of dharma can be called dharmi or s/he can remain nameless, but the word 'hindu' is inadequate to describe him/her.___ >>>"These religions, which pose a threat to the survival of Hindus and Hindu dharma on Hindu bhumi, have to be either destroyed or effectively subdued."<<<___ These religions are derivative of the mleccha characteristic of self-aggrandizement that defines western world. Other similar derivatives of selfish western outlook are the -isms such as Communism, Capitalism, Socialism, Secularism, so on. These are a threat to the survival of not only "Hindus and Hindu dharma on Hindu bhumi", but also of Nature itself, of life itself on earth. That is why they have to be destroyed or subdued. Excellent wake up call by Smt Radha Rajan. namaste. ___________ Prof Arvind Sharma discusses inappropriateness of Article 18 of UN declaration of human rights here- http://www.infinityfoundation.com/indic_colloq/persons/person_sharma_arvind.htm  
  Incognito  
  05 Feb 2010  
   
 
  You cannot be a Dharma Guru and go and surrender the bhakta to the anti-dharma preacher. So when they achieve NOTHING for the Dharma and the Bhakta - what do they go international for? Regards. Shraddha 05 Feb 2010 Shraddhaji, Pardon me, have you ever tried to understand the meaning of the word Guru or Aacharya? And how on earth can a "Bhakta" get converted - if he is indeed a "Bhakta" ? Guru and Aacharya only try to educate, explain etc. namaskaram  
  ram mohan  
  05 Feb 2010  
   
 
  They must give up the craving for free air tickets, limousines at airports, and 7-star hotels at the other end - for photo-opportunities with the enemies of Hindu Dharma. Shraddha 05 Feb 2010 Shraddhaji, that is a very revealing statement of yours. So heart of heart, you do not recognize them as either Guru or Aacharya or anything like that - and you "believe" that they are all craving for free airtickeets, 7 star hotels etc... If they are this type of people, as you portray them, then is there any room for complaint at all? namaskaram  
  ram mohan  
  05 Feb 2010  
   
 
  Avadhuthji, Pardon me, people can read your post better, if you kindly write the normal way - using more of small letters - than the way writing everything in capital letters. It gives a feeling that, may be you are not used to the internet world. It does not matter - as in early stages, due to ignorance, there are some like me too making similar mistakes. thanks a lot  
  ram mohan  
  05 Feb 2010  
   
 
  RR writes >>"Whatever your rights, I will defend them at any forum, but this cannot give you a sanction to have a program of aggression and destruction”.<< me:Many thanks RR for quoting the above from Sw Dayanandaji's talks. Now, how come you highlight only one part of that sentence - while that sentence as a whole very clearly communicates to any reader that your attack is unwarranted ? I think - if only you spare some time and read or listen to his talks in so many places all over India and abroad for the last so many decades - you will know how wrong you were. It does not matter, we all learn from mistakes and misunderstandings. All that one need is some effort to read, listen, think, analyze etc - as far as possible without any preconceived notions. namaskaram  
  ram mohan  
  05 Feb 2010  
   
 
  [1] Point being, EFFORTS TO ORGANISE ON THE BASIS OF 'RELIGION' OF THE PARENTS IS ABSURD. [2]. dharma transcends geographic boundaries. Therefore terms that define people on the basis of locality is also inadequate. Thus the term "Hindu" is inappropriate on both counts- both as an indicator of parental religion as well as indicator of region, when used for individuals who are conscious of dharma.[3] Further, it is also not a word rooted in samskritam, the mother of all indian languages. [4] Similarly, a person who is conscious of dharma can be called dharmi or s/he can remain nameless, but the word 'hindu' is inadequate to describe him/her.___ very interesting indeed........ may be birth of new gurus and aacharyas - why not have a NEW H D A S = NHDAS = after all, India has given birth to any number of splits !! cheers  
  ram mohan  
  05 Feb 2010  
   
 
  >Further, it is also not a word rooted in samskritam, the mother of all indian languages< ........... not a word rooted in sanksrit? will you be kind enough to explain please?????  
  ram mohan  
  05 Feb 2010  
   
 
  Absolutely brilliant article. There is nothing, absolutely nothing for Hindus in these inter-faith and multi-faith dialogues and conferences. This is Gandhian folly. The naive morons of the HDAS are, like Mahapapi Gandhi, leading gullible Hindus to the slaughterhouse. Smt Rajan Rajan has given us all a none-too-early warning. Either we kill our non-Hindu enemies or they will surely make us extinct. The choice is ours. Shreevalsan  
  Shreevalsan  
  06 Feb 2010  
   
 
  I believe Radha Ji. I dont care what others say. Regds.  
  Kuna Mohanty  
  06 Feb 2010  
   
 
  Like any typical 'secular' Hindu, S Vasan seems more concerned about the survival of our deadliest enemies than the poor Hindu society. If our swamis and sannyasis had even an iota of smartness, they would have made us Hindus terrorists because that is the only way to survive. Remember it was Swami Samarth Ramdas who made Shivaji such a doughty Islam fighter. And, contrary to what Ram Mohan says, Shraddha is absolutely right about the modern gurus craving for free air tickets and five-star hotels. Money is what drives them, like all the rest of us. What a terrible pity! Indira Oorath  
  Indira Oorath  
  06 Feb 2010  
   
 
  @Indira Oorath. Liked your Posts. Regds.  
  Kuna Mohanty  
  06 Feb 2010  
   
 
  Indiraji I prefer the word "warriors" to 'terrorists'. Terrorism must be used by Hindus ONLY with regard to Church, islam and other political and economic ideologies associated with these two religions. On Hindu bhumi Hindus are always ONLY warriors in defence of their dharma, their bhumi and their people.  
  Radha Rajan  
  06 Feb 2010  
   
 
  @All. Good Comedy. Why dont you people become terrorists and warriors? Whom are you waiting for? What are you waiting for? Dont wait for others to become terrorists or warriors so that you sick people can sit and enjoy with your family at home. You people are the biggest losers in town by asking others to fight for you. Please get out of your house and fight it out. Fighting and arguing in the internet will not solve any problem as per your logic itself. So stop your cribbing, ranting, abusing, etc etc and get ready for your fight. Please try to be smart. Understand the situtation and tackle it in smart, clever and cunning ways. Getting emotional and raw will in no way help. And I hate the word secular for the meaning that you are attaching it with. I am a proud Hindu. And I am working towards protecting my Dharma.  
  S Vasan  
  06 Feb 2010  
   
 
  Shreevalsan writes: Absolutely brilliant article. There is nothing, absolutely nothing for Hindus in these inter-faith and multi-faith dialogues and conferences. This is Gandhian folly. The naive morons of the HDAS are, like Mahapapi Gandhi, leading gullible Hindus to the slaughterhouse. Smt Rajan Rajan has given us all a none-too-early warning. Either we kill our non-Hindu enemies or they will surely make us extinct. The choice is ours. Shreevalsan Shreevalsan 06 Feb 2010 ============================================I would rather wait to see the comment of RR on this post of Shreevalsan ====================== cheers  
  ram mohan  
  06 Feb 2010  
   
 
  I believe Radha Ji. I dont care what others say. Regds. Kuna Mohanty 06 Feb 2010 ====================== every terrorist also says he "believes" some one or something written somewhere. I do not mean to say KM is a terrorist or anything like that; but then that is the problem with the "belief" system and we need to use our thinking faculty to learn, think, question, analyze and understand. With "belief" system it is always like who strikes first; with understanding, it is education to live and let live - which is called growth. there is no disease worse than poverty there is no poverty worse than Ignorance. cheers  
  ram mohan  
  06 Feb 2010  
   
 
  Indiraji I prefer the word "warriors" to 'terrorists'. Terrorism must be used by Hindus ONLY with regard to Church, islam and other political and economic ideologies associated with these two religions. On Hindu bhumi Hindus are always ONLY warriors in defence of their dharma, their bhumi and their people. Radha Rajan 06 Feb 2010 ================================================ RR, yes, yes, now I get a feel of that - like Taliban and Al Quaida are warriors in "Islam Bhumi ( sorry, I do not know the arabic words for that ) and LET and Hizubul are warriors in Pakistan Bhumi etc.... ========== Tell me RR, in this *war* (?) counter terrorism ( sorry again, what word should be used here instead of terrorism after the word "counter" - ) permitted? And what is the geographical limit for this counter ....whatever you call that ? cheers  
  ram mohan  
  06 Feb 2010  
   
 
  to Ram mohan : No amount of explaining will be enough to make you understand anything of value. Incognito 06 Feb 2010 ============================================= do not worry Incognito - when Guru and Aacharyas have not succeeded in making a person like RR understand, a poor person like me failing in understanding is no problem at all. But, atleast I only ask questions - and you are unable to answer them . It is not a personal attack - I only wonder if you come across questions by children and your replies are the same way? [ that is the problem, many Hindus face ] cheers  
  ram mohan  
  06 Feb 2010  
   
 
  >>>"I only wonder if you come across questions by children and your replies are the same way?"<<< _____ children display better understanding and sincerity, unlike you.  
  Incognito  
  06 Feb 2010  
   
 
  >>>"I only wonder if you come across questions by children and your replies are the same way?"<<< _____ children display better understanding and sincerity, unlike you. Incognito 06 Feb 2010 Means they know by now it is of no use asking questions ... ok..ok... I too will stop asking questions to you . Let me too display better understanding and sincerety .....{ why to put others in to problems by asking questions for which they have no answers } thanks and cheers :-))  
  ram mohan  
  06 Feb 2010  
   
 
  >Get Sri Krishna as your guide in this war. Get realization, brahma jnana." Incognito 05 Feb 2010 < yes, but then when you get Krishna as your guide, you need to accept him as your guru - means you need to become a student - and then put in effort to read / study / analyze / question / etc .... leading to the understanding . And there are 18 chapters - each one of them so meaningful ... one cannot adopt a system of "highlighting part of the sloka" and leave the remaining part as of no importance. Read everything including what Krishna talks about Anger ... the results of anger... Karma, Karma phala, saguna, nirguna, Dharma , Jnana etc leading to Moksha.... Even need to understand what is Moksha, what is self etc.. good to put in some effort and Krishna says that once a person start on this path, there will be continuity even if he cannot complete this in the next few births.... cheers  
  ram mohan  
  06 Feb 2010  
   
 
  Pujya Swami Dayananda Saraswati deserves better than Ram Mohan and Vasan. Guys, you are a disgrace. Hot air, gas and froth at the mouth cannot substitute reasoned arguments. Doesn't GFCH have anybody else other than you two juvenile delinquents to speak for it?  
  S Bhavatharini  
  06 Feb 2010  
   
 
  Most respected Smt Radha Rajan, I stand corrected. Your good self is absolutely right that Hindus should not be called 'terrorists', they should be called 'warriors' only because they are fighting to restore dharma in their own bhumi. Muslims, Christians, Communists, Maoists, pseudo-secular politicans and the Indian media ( and even Gandhians) can be called terrorists but not Hindu patriots like your good self and Smt Sandhya Jain. Indira Oorath  
  Indira Oorath  
  06 Feb 2010  
   
 
  >> Pujya Swami Dayananda Saraswati deserves better than Ram Mohan and Vasan. Guys, you are a disgrace. Hot air, gas and froth at the mouth cannot substitute reasoned arguments. Doesn't GFCH have anybody else other than you two juvenile delinquents to speak for it? S Bhavatharini 06 Feb 2010 << A clear case of "pre-conceived notion". I am nobody in either GFCH or HDAS or HDRS or any such organisations, but a very ordinary Indian. I know about Vasanji as much as I know about SB - or incognito or RR or SJ or Shraddha or Avadhuth or any other names I read here in comment column. there is no disease worse than poverty there is no poverty worse than ignorance cheers  
  ram mohan  
  06 Feb 2010  
   
 
  Ram Mohan, what is wrong with killing five billion non-Hindu Asuras to save a billion civilized Hindus? If we don't do that, won't the one billion Hindus be wiped out? Like any Gandhian, may be that is what you want. Isn't it amazing how every time lone brave Hindu warriors like Sandhya Jain and Radha Rajan rise to the defence of this totally helpless society, some of our own like S Vasan and Ram Mohan rise quickly to throw cold water on the defenders? Indira Oorath  
  Indira Oorath  
  06 Feb 2010  
   
 
  No swami, however revered, should be allowed to get away with selling out Hindu interests in front of asuric forces like Islam and Christianity. Time will prove that, contrary to what S Vasan thinks, barking Hindus can sometimes bite too. Remember December 6, 1992 when a few boys with no weapons except a few pickaxes demolished the Babri Masjid. Swamis and gurus may have millions of devotees but none of these cowardly bhaktas will lift a finger to defend their guru if he is attacked. The best example is the fate of Kanchi Shankaracharya when he was arrested by Jayalalitha.So, don't worry about nitpickers like Vasan and Ram Mohan, RR and SJ. Carry on with your excellent work, you valiant women! Shreevalsan  
  Shreevalsan  
  07 Feb 2010  
   
 
  @ram mohan. Dear Sir, you are wasting your time.I know what's right and obviously which is wrong.On this debate Im with Radha Rajan Ji. If it hurts you its your problem and certainly not mine. Cheers & Best.  
  Kuna Mohanty  
  07 Feb 2010  
   
 
  I request RR not to use harsh words about respectful swamiji & I fully appreciate her constructive criticism. Why don’t you personally meet swamiji and explain him the ground reality and further course of action for future. I am eagerly waiting for other religious meet/fair proposed to be conducted by the GFCH and wanted to see the kind of stuff they display. Also request GFCH to organize the meet at Chennai first  
  vedamgopal  
  07 Feb 2010  
   
 
  I strongly urge all letter writers to desist from talking loosely about physically eliminating entire swathes of humanity. Ms Rajan's articles have been strictly about the defence of Hindu dharma, the failures by those indulging in inter-faith dialogue to do so, and about the resistance to conversions which destroy the Hindu faith in its own bhumi. All comments should concern these aspects alone. Regards  
  Editor  
  07 Feb 2010  
   
 
  Shri Vedamgopal, I would advise you not to speak falsehood especially when it concerns our revered sanyasis and acharyas. Not one word in my columns has been disrespectful of Pujya Swamiji. If anything I have been very critical about the Chennai clique. Critiquing Swamiji's inter-faith dialogues is not to be disrespectful. So don't give it that colour. Disrespect of any Sanyasi is mahapaapa and nothing less than gurudroha. So please be very careful about what you sya and imply. And I am completely in agreement with the editor about loose talk. Hindus have to do what Hindus have to do.  
  Radha Rajan  
  07 Feb 2010  
   
 
  Your analysis is excellent. May I add a small point to it. Hinduism being a Dharma, it neither has any dogmas nor it recognizes any dogma as religion. It rejects all kinds of religious dogmas and dogma-mandated all activities as asuric. Swami Prakasanandendra 07 Feb 2010  
  Swami Prakasanandendra Saraswati  
  07 Feb 2010  
   
 
  >> Your analysis is excellent. May I add a small point to it. Hinduism being a Dharma, it neither has any dogmas nor it recognizes any dogma as religion. It rejects all kinds of religious dogmas and dogma-mandated all activities as asuric. Swami Prakasanandendra 07 Feb 2010 << with due respects to Swamiji, when you say "Hinduism being a Dharma " can you be kind enough to explain what exactly a layman should understand from that?  
  ram mohan  
  07 Feb 2010  
   
 
  Dear RR – Sorry I have made a loose comment – my standard of English is below average & decided not to post comments in the highly intellectual forum- in fact I am a fan of you, admired your you-tube video speech “intellectual terrorism” and seen it several time, trying to inject the Shatriya blood , forwarded the you-tube reference to many of friends . By the by who is this Chennai Clique ?  
  vedamgopal  
  07 Feb 2010  
   
 
  >> @ram mohan. Dear Sir, you are wasting your time.I know what's right and obviously which is wrong.On this debate Im with Radha Rajan Ji. If it hurts you its your problem and certainly not mine. Cheers & Best. Kuna Mohanty 07 Feb 2010 << so many posts of mine were deleted because of my using "=== "which was like a spam ( as I have been told ). That is a case of ignorance on my part and I understand that now. I cannot repost all those replies. ### However, here to KM, I want to state this once again since KM thinks it "hurts" me. Sorry, KM...on this earth, as of now, I do not allow any one to hurt me and until I permit, no one can hurt me. So no worry on that score. I give all the freedom to anyone to say anything ( you only need to see the editor is happy with you - I have no problems at all ). So, enjoy.  
  ram mohan  
  07 Feb 2010  
   
 
  >> I believe Radha Ji. I dont care what others say. Regds. Kuna Mohanty 06 Feb 2010 << that is the problem with belief system - be it Islam or Christianity or any other theology. Until the human being grows to the level of understanding, we will have problems because in belief system the thinking faculty is given a holiday. ### Osama Bin Laden believes he is right ; Evangelist believes he is right, the list of believers is too long.... you are one more believer - are you? I only wonder how one believer is different from the other? cheers  
  ram mohan  
  07 Feb 2010  
   
 
  Ram Mohan dude, let me see if I got this right. You say, "In belief system the thinking faculty is given a holiday". So a thinker is by definition a non-believer while a believer is a non-thinker. Now would you say Adi Sankara was a thinker or a believer? And Maharishi Aurobindo?  
  S Bhavatharini  
  07 Feb 2010  
   
 
  After reading all five parts of this essay again, I have to say you have made a convert out of me. For a person who claims not to know our shastras that well, you have managed to articulate its key ideas with a clarity I have rarely heard from various acharyas. Congratulations.  
  vjven  
  08 Feb 2010  
   
 
  >> Ram Mohan dude, let me see if I got this right. You say, "In belief system the thinking faculty is given a holiday". So a thinker is by definition a non-believer while a believer is a non-thinker. Now would you say Adi Sankara was a thinker or a believer? And Maharishi Aurobindo? S Bhavatharini 07 Feb 2010 << SB, when a person "believes" that is like a conclusion. no further effort is there to think. But a thinker understands that * at this time, with the available knowledge to me I understand it to be so and there is every possibility that my understanding may need to be modified in the wake of further knowledge*. Shall be greatful if you explain any irrationality or ill-logic in the above statement. Re Shankara or Aurobindo and for that any one, who am I to sit on judgement? I only try to understand, learn from what they have been saying - since I know my knowledge is limited. If I find some disconnect, then I do discuss such issues with teachers who teach that, listen to different interpretations, try to anlyze with help of friends like you in different groups - all process of learning. cheers  
  ram mohan  
  08 Feb 2010  
   
 
  Glad this unsubstantiated drivel has finally concluded. It is clear that RR and SJ have some personal enmities that they are settling scores with using the bully pulpit of a journalist. Instead of creating disharmony within HDAS, which is the first democratic voice of traditional Hindu religious leadership, their time would be better spent working to cement the unity. They are doing a great damage to the Hindu cause by such ranting and demogoguery. This is evident by the current turn the discourse has taken where their supporters such as Ms. Oorath are openly advocating turning Hindus into atatayees.  
  Dharama Palak  
  08 Feb 2010  
   
 
  The Catholic's Bishop's Conference begins today in Velankanni, South Tamil Nadu. Sri Sri Ravishankar is Special Invitee. This gentleman is one of the Hindu founder-patrons of GFCH. In one stroke this man has ensured that his students around the world do not perceive the church as a threat to Hindus. Unless they and their Guru want to tell us that they accept to sit, wine and dine with Asuras. The Catholic Church is nopw peddling the obscene lie that they do not undertake religious conversion thru "coercion and inducement" and only the Protestants do that. Which people like the writer who have studied the church know is an obscene lie. This article on the HDAS and the Chennai clique hijacking the forum by linking it to the GFCH thus stands vindicated.  
  Radha Rajan  
  09 Feb 2010  
   
 
  >> The Catholic's Bishop's Conference begins today in Velankanni, South Tamil Nadu. Sri Sri Ravishankar is Special Invitee. ... Radha Rajan 09 Feb 2010 << Sorry to ask another of my stupid questions, RR: by any chance, are you one of those human beings - who believe that son of a Brahmin is a Brahmin, son of a Kshatriya is a Kshatriya...etc? Can you explain *meaningfully* {keeping your personal "biases" away for sometime please } what is wrong with Sri Sri Ravishankar being invited or if he discuss anything under the sun with any one under the sun, including Osama Bin Laden (if there is an opportunity for that? ) Please educate poor ignorant laymen like me who constitute the large majority of this country India (which you term as Hindu Bhumi - you cannot even define the geography of your Hindu Bhumi can you? ). This is no loose talk - show your capabilities by answering the question precisely. Since I do not know you, I wonder how were you as a student when you were attending the school. You never used to talk to your friends? or were you talking only to people of your sub caste/caste/community/ village/town/??? It will be interesting to know if some of your friends do write a few lines about you to know your psychology. Or, does your children, your relatives children or children of your friends communicate with others? And it seems that you are so so scared that by communicating you can get brainwashed... Does it not reveal your level of confidence in you? cheers  
  ram mohan  
  09 Feb 2010  
   
 
  >> This gentleman is one of the Hindu founder-patrons of GFCH. In one stroke this man has ensured that his students around the world do not perceive the church as a threat to Hindus. Radha Rajan 09 Feb 2010 << If Sri Sri Ravishankar is the founder patron or one of them, good . What is wrong with that? Now, you need to explain to poor laymen like me - who constitute the largest majority in this country - how did "this man ensured" that his students do not perceive the church as a threat to Hindus . What supporting data you have? Kindly do educate us. cheers  
  ram mohan  
  09 Feb 2010  
   
 
  >> Unless they and their Guru want to tell us that they accept to sit, wine and dine with Asuras. Radha Rajan 09 Feb 2010 << Another very revealing line from RR - I mean self-confidence of RR. Is it so difficult for one who has confidence to sit by side of any one and still not to wine and dance if one does not like that?  
  ram mohan  
  09 Feb 2010  
   
 
  >> The Catholic Church is nopw peddling the obscene lie that they do not undertake religious conversion thru "coercion and inducement" and only the Protestants do that. Which people like the writer who have studied the church know is an obscene lie. This article on the HDAS and the Chennai clique hijacking the forum by linking it to the GFCH thus stands vindicated. Radha Rajan 09feb2010<< Catholic church has been claiming so, how does Sri Sri's being invited makes RR's stand vindicated? By having the opportunity to communicate, atleast Sri Sri can make CC what they say is not fully correct { it that is not correct } and for this purpose, should not people like Radha Rajan provide support with enough data to people like Sri Sri ? That is called creative support. Sadly, what RR wants is to remain "incommunicado" ? It will be interesting to hear from RR how she handles a situation without communicating - when there are differences !! [ pl provide some case studies which we can apply in our life ]  
  ram mohan  
  09 Feb 2010  
   
 
  I read the entire article at one stretch. I understand the urgent need of the hour for hindus is to face and counter the ugly proselytisation activities of abrahamic religions. But let the exercise do not fragment the already fragmented society. with folded hands, I request Smt.Radha Rajan to stop name calling. I very well agree with each and every issue raised by her and the attitude and intensity of action required from hindu saints and hindu society at large. to begin with, in that process, let issues be raised and addressed and the society of hindu intellectuals and hindu saints be conciliatory towards the aged, respected and highly knowledeable and well intended saints who had taken not so appropriate decisions.. when i was a young swayamsevak, I was taught to include every one to the regular shaka. be them good, bad, well intended not so well intended. after all, for building the society, doctorji started the sangha with just 5 people and now it is a big vata vruksha. this was possible only by way of strong leadership and conciliatory approach of doctorji. another most important thing i wish to add here. This was narrated to me by sangha elders. At the time of emergency, when sangh was banned and was operating in different names, there raised the question of whether or not admit muslims and christians in shaka. there was a vertical divide. But thanks to the gentlemanly discussion padhati established over the decades by doctorji and guruji the issue was deliberated threadbare without any heartburn and ofcourse it was decided to take any and every human being, be whatever his caste, creed or religion provided he agrees to the concept of hindu rashtra concept of sangh irrespective of his religious beliefs. I agree with each one of the issue raised by respected Smt.Radha Rajan. But let the issues be addressed with an embracive and conciliatory way. dharmo rakshati rakshitaH. krishna kumar  
  krishnakumar  
  09 Feb 2010  
   
 
  [1] >>Disrespect of any Sanyasi is mahapaapa and nothing less than gurudroha. So please be very careful about what you sya and imply. And I am completely in agreement with the editor about loose talk. Hindus have to do what Hindus have to do. Radha Rajan 07 Feb 2010 << [2] >>...Sri Sri Ravishankar is Special Invitee. This gentleman is one of the Hindu founder-patrons of GFCH. In one stroke this man has ensured that his students around the world do not perceive the church as a threat to Hindus. Unless they and their Guru want to tell us that they accept to sit, wine and dine with Asuras. The Catholic Church is nopw peddling the obscene lie that they do not undertake religious conversion thru "coercion and inducement" and only the Protestants do that. Which people like the writer who have studied the church know is an obscene lie. This article on the HDAS and the Chennai clique hijacking the forum by linking it to the GFCH thus stands vindicated. Radha Rajan 09 Feb 2010 << Another set of thoughts coming out of Radha Rajan. or may be I am wrong to understand that "gurudhroha" is only when it is disrespect to Sanyasi? But then a sanyasi need not be a guru and a guru need not be a sanyasi - in which case the word "gurudhroha" seems to be not the apt word? or is it that only when RR recognizes some one as Sanyasi or Guru then the "disrespect" etc to be considered as Gurudhroha and since Sri Sri is only "this man" rest of the statements of RR are perfectly fine?  
  ram mohan  
  09 Feb 2010  
   
 
  With due respect to Radhaji, I completly endorse Mr Krishnakumar's views.Please, I beg one and all,let us not have any more divisions.  
  Rama  
  09 Feb 2010  
   
 
  The comments by Ram Mohan are really tiresome. Like any typical Gandhian Hindu, he seems incapable of appreciating the utterly serious issues raised by the formidable writer Smt Radha Rajan. Of course, like most of our gurus and sannyasis, Sri Sri Ravishankar has surrendered Hindu interests by agreeing to sit with one of our deadliest enemies, the Chrisitan Church. The gurus may know the Vedas and the Shastras but, unlike Muslims, Christians and Communists, they, like most Gandhian Hindus, have no common sense. India and Indians have a long tradition of surrendering at the negotating table what our brave soldiers had won with their blood. Please carry on with your excellent work, Smt Radha, never mind the nitpickers. Indira  
  Indira Oorath  
  09 Feb 2010  
   
 
  Dude Ram Mohan, there IS a disease worse than poverty. It is called Incurable Stupidity; and there IS a poverty worse than ignorance; it is total absence of intellect which is also the fruits of karma. I dont blame you, you are suffering the fruits of your karma with your stupidity. Kumar, you say the RSS fought emergency. Now tell me how the RSS is battling religious conversion and jihad? Radha is saying we have failed to stop these two asuras so far. Rama, there can be no false or aritificial unity. The division exists at the most fundamental level of the purpose of all these organizations. Unity can be achieved only when the enemy is common and the purpose to destroy the enemy is also common. One entity cannot fight the enemy while another entity is embracing the enemy. Why dont you all begin to think seriously and in depth? And dude Ram Mohan, pl dont send me a list of 12 questions in five letters. They are as juvenile as your mind.  
  S Bhavatharini  
  10 Feb 2010  
   
 
  The write up is indeed eye-opeing, but it is confusing too. I found this article talking about Hindu Spiritual and Service fair organised by GFCH. I thing GFCH guys have done a commendable job by organising this fair. The writer too has some words of appreciation for the fair but she is also criticizing GFCH. So, how it is possible? Anyways, any comments on this artilce which i found on web: ------------------------------------------------------------- TOGETHER WE SERVE Devotees of Satya Sai Baba buying DVDs of Sri Sri Ravi Shankar’s Art of Living programme; disciples if ISCKON purchasing literature from Mata Amritanandamayi Math; Sadhvis of Prajapita Brahmakumaris understanding the mission and message of Ramakrishna Mission and young volunteers of Chinmaya Yuva Kendra rubbing shoulders with senior citizens in comprehending the teaching of Kanchi Swamigal. Unbelievable? Illusionary? Perhaps impossible. But it’s true and it happened in Chennai from December 24-28. Over 100 Hindu spiritual and service organizations including Ramakrishna Mission, Aurobindo Ashram, Ramanashramam, Kanchi Mutt, Sringeri Mutt, Mata Amritanandamayi Math, Art of Living movement, Patanjali Yogapeeth of Baba Ramdev, Swaminarayan movement etc came together for the first time ever on a single platform – the Hindu Spiritual and Service Fair 2009 – at the Sri Ramachandra University Grounds at Thiruvanmiyur in Chennai. The five-day gala event was organized by the Chennai chapter of the Global Foundation for Civilizational Harmony (India). One of the primary objectives of the organizers behind holding the fair was to correct the wrong impression that Hindu spiritual organizations are not service-minded, are not socially conscious and they do not have a deep impulse for public service, unlike Christian, Islamic or even Sikh organizations. Apart from a sizeable chunk of Hindus themselves, particularly the younger generation, who shared this wrong perception, this viewpoint had also greatly prejudiced the respect for Hindu faith in the minds of the followers of other faiths, as a socially insensitive faith. And of course, it also affected India’s image as a nation and of the Indian people as a whole as it implied that the majority faith groups of India are not socially conscious. Again, in the absence among the general public of information pertaining to the service activities being carried out by Hindu spiritual organizations, philanthropic Hindus tended to make huge donations to organizations of other faiths. Not that donations to any organization serving the mankind is wrong. Only that many of those organizations receive plenty of funds from abroad while such local organizations suffer on account of insufficient support. The fair provided an opportunity to such generous and philanthropic individuals to donate to community organizations itself. Last but not the least, the fair provided an opportunity to the layman to support the service of his or her liking. For example, some people love pets but do not know how to help them and through which organization. So, there was Karuna International. Some people were interested in meditation, so there was both Rajayoga by Brahmakumaris and Sudarshana Kriya by Art of Living. There were also organizations dedicated to Yoga, temple renovation, village adoption, orphanages, old age homes etc. The fair, thus, gave a wide option for the layman to choose his ‘Isht Sewa’ (service of choice). Expectedly, the crowds that thronged the fair were also huge – a whopping 1.25 lakh according to organizers. The visitors included eminent personalities such as senior BJP leader Shri M Venkaiah Naidu, RSS leaders Shri Suryanarayan Rao and Shri Ram Madhav, actors Suganya, Arjun, Vivek, Vineet besides a host of social and industry leaders. A surprise visitor to the fair was by Tamil Maanila Muslim League President Shri S Sheik Dawood, who appreciated the social work being done by Hindu organizations. And all of them saw not just the stalls but also the staggering reach of the Hindu organizations. Just the 100 organisations which participated in the fair ran about 90,000 schools, constituting 1/8th of the total schools in the country. These organizations ran 25,000 hospitals and clinics and 4.5 lakh rural development projects. In fact, the Arya Samaj alone runs 24,000 educational institutions whereas institutions run by and affiliated to Vidya Bharati is over 18,000. This is mind-boggling, yet unknown to the majority of the people both within and outside the community. All these statistics, both total and of individual organizations, were prominently displayed in the Central Pavillion of the fair, which attracted a large number of visitors. The fair was inaugurated by Tamil Nadu Governor Shri Surjit Singh Barnala in the presence of Karnataka Chief Minister Shri B S Yeddyurappa. While Shri Barnala asserted that the services rendered by Hindu spiritual organizations have been immense, Shri Yeddyurappa termed as “utterly original” the idea of showcasing spiritual organizations as socially conscious service organizations. “There is a general perception that Hindu spiritual organizations are not socially conscious and lack motivation for service. This myth needs to be demolished in order to gain the rightful place for these organizations in the global order of things”, Shri Yeddyyurappa said. In his valedictory address on the concluding day of the fair, Swami Gauthamananda, President, Ramakrishna Mission, Chennai, said, “the fair has explicitly and powerfully brought out and placed before us the service aspect of all religious organizations, which is part and parcel of their love of man”. Above all, it brought unity of minds, with devotees of different schools of thought within Hinduism coming together under one roof and trying to know and understand each other. It was not just an exhibition, it is a revolution in the making. Together we serve. Together we struggle, Together we survive. Together we succeed.  
  Aham  
  10 Feb 2010  
   
 
  @RR, SJ, Oorath, Bavatharini, Mohanty, etc etc......What are you guys doing to counter these threats? What is this "Vijayvaani" and "Vigilonline" doing to counter Islam and Christianity? RR and SJ have done aremarkable turnaround by talking about Gurupapa and "no to Hindu warriors" adage. They have been contradicting themselves here. ['Absolutely brilliant article. There is nothing, absolutely nothing for Hindus in these inter-faith and multi-faith dialogues and conferences. This is Gandhian folly. The naive morons of the HDAS are, like Mahapapi Gandhi, leading gullible Hindus to the slaughterhouse. Smt Rajan Rajan has given us all a none-too-early warning. Either we kill our non-Hindu enemies or they will surely make us extinct. The choice is ours - Shreevalsan] ["Like any typical 'secular' Hindu, S Vasan seems more concerned about the survival of our deadliest enemies than the poor Hindu society. If our swamis and sannyasis had even an iota of smartness, they would have made us Hindus terrorists because that is the only way to survive. Remember it was Swami Samarth Ramdas who made Shivaji such a doughty Islam fighter. And, contrary to what Ram Mohan says, Shraddha is absolutely right about the modern gurus craving for free air tickets and five-star hotels. Money is what drives them, like all the rest of us. What a terrible pity! ' - Oorath] And now ["Indiraji I prefer the word "warriors" to 'terrorists'. Terrorism must be used by Hindus ONLY with regard to Church, islam and other political and economic ideologies associated with these two religions. On Hindu bhumi Hindus are always ONLY warriors in defence of their dharma, their bhumi and their people." - Radha Rajan]. Now RR and SJ are asking their band of supporters to mellow down fearing a backlash from somewhere. Bavatharini is worst of all the participants in this forum who has resorted to worst form of name calling and personal attacks. She is empty vessel that i smaking the most sound. RR and SJ do not even have a single point to conter either my views or Ram Mohan's. I dare her to go through all my posts and reply with meaningful comments apart from crying a big foul. RR - Please stop creating a maya about HDAS, GFCH, HDRS and Pujya Swamiji. You are abig time loser who is having personal vengence against them and the Chennai Clique. If you have the guts, name the chennai clique. I bet you wont. Then we will try to take notice of your views. Prove that a you are truthful journalist by naming all. Else you are no more than a selfish journalist doing nothing but sitting at home and typin nonsense causing havoc to our Hindu Dharma. You are simply jealous and selfish. Period.  
  S Vasan  
  10 Feb 2010  
   
 
  Aham, your report on GFCH, like your name is only half of the truth, giving only half information. For fullness read Radha's "That wondrous creature called GFCH"  
  Brahmaasmi  
  11 Feb 2010  
   
 
  Indiraji writes >>[1]The comments by Ram Mohan are really tiresome.<< *me* :- Is there any compulsion that you need to read and respond to whatever anyone writes? If you consciously want to respond, it is your decision to act and then why complain after you consciously take a decision to act? sorry, a stupid like me -may not understand this psychology, still I would like to know if Indiraji can explain. >>[2] Like any typical Gandhian Hindu, he seems incapable of appreciating the utterly serious issues raised by the formidable writer Smt Radha Rajan.<< *me*:- Is it another of Indiraji's "beliefs" that people are spending their time - so much time - if they are "incapable of appreciating" the seriousness of the issues? >>[3] Of course, like most of our gurus and sannyasis, Sri Sri Ravishankar has surrendered Hindu interests by agreeing to sit with one of our deadliest enemies, the Chrisitan Church<< *me*:- my, my, in one go, now Indiraji writes " like most of our gurus and sannyasis".... I would positively expect to respond if *editor* of Vijayavani and RR and SJ etc concur with those words - and will Indiraji be kind enough to say if "most of our gurus and sannasis" started this activity with Sw Vivekananda travelling to USA ? [4] >> The gurus may know the Vedas and the Shastras but, unlike Muslims, Christians and Communists, they, like most Gandhian Hindus, have no common sense.<< *me*:- Kindly read the last three words again "have no common sense". Our gurus and sannyasis have no commonsense?? >>[5] Please carry on with your excellent work, Smt Radha, never mind the nitpickers. Indira Indira Oorath 09 Feb 2010 << *me*:- but I doubt if RadhaRajan is going to tell Indiraji that "pl continue with your excellent this type of support " - ofcourse, I could be wrong { atleast this is one instance where in I would like not to be wrong } cheers [1] tiresom  
  ram mohan  
  11 Feb 2010  
   
 
  SB writes:- >>Dude Ram Mohan, there IS a disease worse than poverty. It is called Incurable Stupidity; and there IS a poverty worse than ignorance; it is total absence of intellect which is also the fruits of karma. I dont blame you, you are suffering the fruits of your karma with your stupidity. << *me* :- Many thanks for that 'revelation' SB. I can only feel sad that, my karma results in suffering not only for me, but you too - that should be the reason that you are forced to respond to my post - is it not? enjoy with those thoughts of yours./// And if your thinking faculty is not on a holiday, kindly spare a few mintues to see what does the stupidity means and what does the intellect means and how they are related etc. If you have studied our scriptures; then possibly you would have learned the statement that in the wake of the light of the knowledge, the ignorance vanishes. [ in the wake of vidya, avidya disappear ] - Also, since you are quoting "karma", pardon me for asking another of my stupid [ i know I have too many limitations ]questions, have you spared some time to study the term Karma and Dharma ? If any one's karma makes him stupid, then think for a moment, why on earth he is provided with thinking faculty? Also, in this case, why on earth the scriptures talk about "prasada buddhi" ? What is prasada buddhi? I can assure you, even if I am stupid, you would pick up a lot of interesting info from the ongoing discussions and someday, you will find it useful - like many of the readers, who only read, but do not participate. /// >> And dude Ram Mohan, pl dont send me a list of 12 questions in five letters. They are as juvenile as your mind. S Bhavatharini 10 Feb 2010 << *me* :- That is very interesting SB ; I thought I only post in this columns and do not remember to have sent you any question. and by the way, do you think your "instruction" to an *incurably stupid* person will ever be understood by such a person {in this case 'the poor me' (lol) . what do they call a person who orders such stupids ? cheers  
  ram mohan  
  11 Feb 2010  
   
 
  Ram Mohan, Swami Vivekananda did not surrender Hindu interests in USA (indeed he fought for them) but all other swamis and sannyasis have been following the Gandhian policy of surrender and suicide. Is it not self-evident that our gurus have no political common sense? These timid gurus lacking in self-confidence are, like our pseudo-secular politicians, craving for recognition by our deadliest enemies like Muslims and Christians. When Hindus are fighting with their back to the wall, Ram Mohan is enlightening us about 'prasada buddhi'! That is, he is playing the veena when the house in on fire. Indira Oorath  
  Indira Oorath  
  15 Feb 2010  
   
 
  Ms Rajan and Ms Jain deserve extremist supporters like Ms Oorath. There is no difference between a Jihadist and Ms Oorath who seems to believe in tyranny and violence as a solution. @Ms. Oorath: Swami Dayananda was the first one to challenge the Pope and point out that conversion is violence. But Swamiji does not incite people to kill other religionists and advocates "mutual respect" for all people.  
  Dharma Palak  
  18 Feb 2010  
   
 
  I will proudly wear the label 'extremist' that Dharma Palak has given me. In return, I will give him the label 'Gandhian coward'. Because only a follower of that supreme imbecile called Gandhi would see no difference between a jihadist and a Hindu warrior fighting for survival of Hindu society in its one and only homeland. And, doesn't Dharma Palak know that Swami Dayananda's advocacy of mutal respect with regard to other religionists will surely be dismissed by the Muslims and Christians with the contempt it deserves? Non-Hindus are realists, not dreamers. They respect the violent and sneer at peaceloving Hindus, and rightly so.  
  Indira Oorath  
  18 Feb 2010  
   
 
  Namaskaram Indiraji, Indiraji writes " They respect the violent and sneer at peaceloving Hindus, and rightly so. Indira Oorath 18 Feb 2010" me: at your level of understanding, you may believe that you are right. But it will be interesting to know precisely some support information on your line "they respect violent Hindus" who are they? what respect has the violent Hindus earned? and who are the violent hindus ? And I think the editor had asked people not to have loose talk. Does the editor thinks this is a loose talk? I wonder. cheers  
  ram mohan  
  25 Feb 2010  
   
 
  And Indiraji, I know you will not understand what is "prasada Budhi" etc. That needs some effort from your side to learn, think, question etc. If ever you understand that, you are most welcome to debate the issues. When you are capable of debating such issues then you will be in a position to claim to be a student of Hinduism. Mere parentage does not give you any qualification to claim to be a Hindu, it is a mere easy identity to differentiate a little bit some section from a large group. Exactly like a brahmin born to the parentage of a brahmin claiming to be a brahmin or a politician born to the parentage of politician claiming to be a "born" politician. there is no disease worse than poverty there is no poverty worse than IGNORANCE. cheers  
  ram mohan  
  25 Feb 2010  
   
 
  Indiraji writes quote " Ram Mohan, Swami Vivekananda did not surrender Hindu interests in USA (indeed he fought for them) but all other swamis and sannyasis have been following the Gandhian policy of surrender and suicide. Indira Oorath 15 Feb 2010 unquote. Kindly look back and compare the conditions existed then with the conditions that exist now. Like you, with the "level" of your "knowledge" or belief try to support Hinduism, every one in every location is trying their best to support / help Hinduism. Their perceptions, beliefs, understanding etc could be different from yours. How will they think you are right or how will you say they are wrong, unless both of you discuss - in a nice atmosphere- issues, precisely, and atleast decide to work together in areas where there could be commonality? And, by the way I was told by some one that Ramakrishna mission it seems tried to debate in court that they are not Hinduism, but Sanatana Dharma ....How do you view this and relate it with Sw Vivekananda? [ if that info is true!! ] cheers  
  ram mohan  
  26 Feb 2010  
   
 
  I said "They respect the violent", NOT "they respect the violent Hindus", meaning that Muslims and Christians always respect all those who are violent, as can be attested by history. Who cares what is "prasada buddhi" when Hindu society's existence is at stake? Mere knowledge of some religious words does not make anyone a Hindu. You become a real Hindu only when you are willing to defend Hindu society which is what great writers like Sandhya Jain and Radha Rajan are doing, unlike Gandhian Hindus like Ram Mohan. Indira Oorath  
  Indira Oorath  
  02 Mar 2010  
   
 
  i came across a mail giving following info. It seems this is talk delivered in 2007. It will be interesting to read, comments against . cheers DO ALL RELIGIONS LEAD TO THE SAME GOAL ? --------------------------------------------------------------- I came across the following talk by Sw Dayananda Saraswatiji and felt it might be of interest to some people who had participated in the discussions on the HDAS by Smt Radha Rajan and the followup comments and views including Smt Sandhya Jain. DO ALL RELIGIONS LEAD TO THE SAME GOAL ? --------------------------------------------------------------- [ Talks by Sw Dayananda Saraswatiji ] All religions lead to the same goal is a concept widely subscribed by educated Hindus. I feel that this well meaning concept needs to be enquired into and understood. If all religions have a wel-defined common goal, the differences would be purely cultural. Cultural differences are totally acceptable to any thinking person, If the goal of the various religions is the same, there will be no religious issue necessitating any discussions. But then what is the truth of the statement that all religions lead to the same goal? If ethical values constitutes the goal of religions, certainly there would be a single goal adopted by all religions, the ethical values being universal. However, should any person be religious to be ethical? Is there a necessity to be educated by religious scriptures to know what is ethical an what is not? Is it not true that any normal human being is well informed about universal values? An aborigine in the outback of Australia as well as a ‘ pandita’ - scholar - from Benares has the same value in not wishing to get hurt. They also know that others do not want to get hurt by him or her. Other values like non-stealing, compassion, sharing and so on are equally well known. In fact, they form the moral infrastructure for the human interaction between one another and between other living organisms. This value knowledge is born of human common sense. Where there is a faculty of choice for human being, he or she should also know a matrix of norms to make the right choices. If the human being is totally programmed, there will be no such thing as right or wrong in human behavior. Without scripture and religious masters, each person is very well informed about rights and wrongs. It means that ethical values cannot constitute the goal of any religion, for one can be ethical without being in anyway any way religious. On the other hand, some religions take away the universality of these common-sense-born values by giving sanctions to killing those who do not conform to their beliefs, who articulate their non-conformity. This implies that the common-sense-born ethics are better off, without any interference from religion. The Vedic religion adds strength to the value-structure by introducing an unseen force ’adrushta phala’ consisting of “punya” and “papa” for actions that are right and wrong respectively. Even though many other popular religions offer reward and punishments, they do not have the equivalent of “punya” and “papa” . Religious theology differs from religion to religion. The concept of the reality of the God, the world and you again thought of differently. God is looked upon as a judgmental person located in a place beyond. Reaching that place and living with him is the goal. Neither the Vedic religion nor Buddhism will accept it as a goal; much less will a devout Christian accept a goal other than reaching the heaven promised by scriptures. Then what does the statement “ All religions lead to the same goal ” mean ? For a ‘vaidika’ who accepts with total understanding that this world including one’s body-mind-sense complex is the Lord’s manifestation, any form of prayer and worship is valid. Every name and form is valid to invoke the Lord; the Lord being every name and form. Moreover, prayer - mental, oral or ritualistic - is “karma”, capable of producing result. The given result is not the goal of religion much less is it the goal of an individual even if one thinks it is so. The goal of an informed ’vaidika’ is freedom from a sense of limitation centered on “I”. Can there be an ultimate goal for a human being other than this ? The freedom, “ moksha” , from this sense of limitation is the human goal. The Veda says that the sense of limitation is due to the ignorance of oneself. This implies that the self-knowledge is the human goal. The theologies of the various world religions and some cults in the Vedic religion as well, do not have anything to do with this goal. They are committed to their own beliefs even though they are non-verifiable and more often than not, unreasonable. They have a right to have their beliefs, beliefs that do not accommodate other religious goals. Such beliefs, however, are not acceptable to a thinking person. They are not acceptable to a person who understands ’moksha’ either. All that a ‘vaidika’ can say is that all forms of prayers are valid. Being an action, -‘karma’- each prayer can produce a limited result. In life we do seek limited results, but it can never be the goal of religion, much less of a human being. [ From a title “INSIGHTS” published in 2007 by Arsha Vidya Centre ]  
  ram mohan  
  07 Mar 2010  
   
 
  Please see http://nijatamizhan.sulekha.com/blog/post/2010/04/shame-on-sandhya-jain-and-radha-rajan.htm.  
  Dharma Palak  
  09 Apr 2010  
   

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