Vedic roots of Yoga: Meera Nanda distorts yoga - I
by Panikkath Krishnanunni on 19 Dec 2018 24 Comments

Yoga, especially the asanas of Hatha Yoga, is very popular. Though it is generally accepted that yoga originated in India, Meera Nanda questions the Vedic origins of Hatha Yoga and claims that yoga is non-Vedic in origin. Meera Nanda claims to have a rational, scientific temper, but, as noted archaeologist, B.S. Harishankar, points out: “Meera Nanda was a John Templeton Foundation Fellow in Religion and Science, which has links with fundamental Christian Protestantism”.

[Rancour towards our knowledge traditions, B.S. Harishankar  

http://vijayvaani.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?aid=4852]

 

On the basis of this information, the question arises: How can a person like Meera Nanda hope to maintain a rational or scientific attitude when she is associated with and influenced by Christian values? Nanda’s irrationality and bias is evident in her arbitrary denial of scientifically derived archaeological conclusions that attest to the existence of yoga during the Harappan era.

 

In her article, “Not as old as you think”, Meera Nanda said, “Indians affirm their claim on yoga of 5000 years’ Vedic tradition, which stretches from the Pashupati seal of (very un-Vedic) Indus Valley civilization. There is one problem with this purist history of yoga. It is false. Yogasanas were never Vedic”.

[http://www.openthemagazine.com/article/living/not-as-old-as-you-think, Feb. 12, 2011]

 

Nanda’s conclusion is readily debunked by the archaeological discoveries of eminent archaeologists such as Dr. B.B. Lal: “The findings of terracotta figurines in various yogasanas, which take the Ashtanga yoga of Panini (2 B.C.) back to the Harappan, must make us pause. It is a staggering material evidence of a spiritual quest unmatched in any civilization”. This establishes the existence of Hatha Yoga as well as its antiquity rooted in the Harappan period.

 

This period is disputed, some estimate it as 2600-1500 B.C. and others 3102 B.C. All that Meera Nanda can hope to do is try to reduce the antiquity period; but our main concern is vindicated: yoga is Vedic in origin, for which archaeological evidence is available.

 

Scriptures

 

Srimad Bhagavat Gita, chapter 1:4-6 as expounded by Sri Paramhansa Yogananda, disciple of Sri Yukteshwar Giri, contains parallels between the Mahabharata and Patanjali yoga. The character, Kuntibhoja, represents the concept of Asana of Patanjali. Similarly, Shaibhya and Dristaketu of Mahabharata corresponds to niyama and yama - the five do’s and don’ts of Patanjali  yoga. Yudhamanyu of Mahabharata means “pranayama” in Patanjali yoga.

 

The importance of pranayama, has been highlighted in Rudra Yamala, a tantric text: “pranayamo mahadharmo, Vedanamapya gocharaha”. It is pertinent that the word “Veda” occurs in a tantric text, indicating its close relation to Vedic tradition. This is evident from temple rituals in Kerala, where both Vedic mantras and tantric mudras are combined in the worship of the deity.

 

The Gita, also explains various types of yoga like karma yoga, jnana yoga, bhakti yoga and mantra yoga (meditation on AUM), varieties to choose according to one’s mental and physical aptitude and intellectual taste. Hence the term “yoga” cannot be defined in a narrow sense to mean only “hatha yoga”. Yoga is defined as “union of the Soul with Parabrahman – root word of the term yoga is ‘yuj’ “which means to join. To achieve this union, various methods are employed and Hatha yoga is just one of those tools used in our Sadhana”.

 

The Gita, although only a portion of the Mahabharata (world’s longest epic), is considered as another Veda as it contains the essence of some of the important Vedic Upanishads. Unlike the four Vedas revealed to ancient rishis in deep meditation, the Bhagavat Gita consists of upadesha (advice) by Sri Krishna, directly to prince Arjuna, orally as well as through the medium of samadhi. As the Gita is Paramatma Vani (voice of the Supreme), it can be treated as a veda. Analysis of the concepts veda, tantra, yoga, pranayam and their interconnectedness with the Gita and Patanjali yoga indicates the existence of many types of yoga during the Mahabharata period.

 

Meera Nanda pompously states “admitting to being ignoramuses is the first step towards acquiring knowledge”. This not only reveals her ignorance, but also her arrogance. Is the concept of “zero” that enabled ancient rishis to calculate crores of years called “Yugas” a product of ignoramuses? Is yoga that gives health and knowledge, a product of ignoramuses? Are the highly technical engineering feats seen in the construction of magnificent temples, a product of Hindu ignoramuses?

 

Meera Nanda should pause and ponder how Vedic Hindu Bharat achieved these feats if it lacked knowledge of various sciences. Nanda gloats copiously over the achievements in science by Greeks, Europe, China and the West. That is fine. But her attempt to show the achievements of ancient Bharat in poor light is lopsided and biased. The evidence of ancient India’s achievements is too strong to be ignored.

 

(To be concluded …)

User Comments Post a Comment
I dont know why this obsession with attributing everything to "Vedic". A stereotype has been created that anything that is not attributed to vedic, is foreign, and Non-Hindu. The Hindu intellectuals has completely fallen for such dubious propoganda unleashed by the leftist historians and always become reactionar, irrationally defensive without any independant stand or mind.

I call this a kind of Reactive Hindu fundamentalism derived from abrahamic fundamentalism.

Let us look at history with open mind without any ideological bias. We need to understand the following facts.

1. Veda is just one of the different knowledge systems originated in Bharath.

2. Veda is NOT a religion.


Now if we accept the above two facts,we could come to a mindset to acknowledge, numerous native indic traditions and knowledge systems. For eg, the tribal communities of chattisgarh, orissa or the north east might have their own knowledge systems, that may not be documented or codified but exists as a one followed in the daily life. These are NOT vedic in nature, but that does not mean, they are alien, and they are hostile to the supposed vedic culture.

As such, Yoga is a knowledge system, that originated as an independant, with a specific goal. It need not be vedic.

The only thing we need ascertain is that it is originated in bharath and belongs to our civilization. Again pls note that our civilization is not vedic . It is composite, where vedic based society is just one part.


Almost all the Hindu intellectuals are doing reactionary work, always countering some leftist or christian historians / writers, and never focus on our original system and how it functioned. Instead of forming a world view based on our deep understanding, they have developed a negative world view of ours based on countering what others write about us.

This is single most reason of why we are not able to be assertive in any of our civilizational concepts.
senthil
December 19, 2018
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There lot of differences b/w vedic and yogic practices.

1. Veda is aligned towards harmony with nature, and absisting from all that affects our body and mind. The smritis say the brahmins should move out of the place where adharmic people are more, or the rulers are not dharmic.

2. Yoga focusses on internal refinement, through set of food and life code. While it developed as a means to attain siddhi, mostly kept as secret and restricted to qualified people, the budha and his sangha hijacked it for mind control, and used it for all wrong purpose. Today, every knowledge system is raped and exploited and prostituted by colonial forces and unfortunately this is cherished by the Hindutva brigade.

3. Contrary to popular view, budha's root lies in afghanistan, and he is a saka and called as sakya muni. The sakas were the mlecha tribes living in beyond the himalayan border. In today's world, the pashtuns and some iranian tribes are called as Sakas.

4. The invasion of Sakas and Huns are the first ever attack on bharath, long before the muslim invasion. While we are more obsessed with the later, most of our people do not care about the former. Driving out the sakas were the primary objective of many of the wars made by our kings as late as 18th century. The last emperor Ranjit Singh who ruled over kashmir drove away the pashtun and uzbek tribes beyond the borders of kashmir.

5. The sakya budhists were the first ones to colonise and hijack the various knowledge systems including the Tantric and yogic, and misused for their mercenary objectives. The problem is that the Hindu intellectuals do not understand the difference b/w mercenary society and a native settled dharmic society and they are advocating a metro centric mercenary society as Hindu society. That's an entirely different topic to write on.


Coming to the topic discussed in this article.

1. Yoga was some over-hyped word, and it was never meant for everyone. It was always meant for ascetics. Today the consumerist minded uprooted metro people are using it for their physical well being. That is not yoga at all. They are mere asanas and excercises copied from yogic system.

2. Stop the propoganda that everything came out of vedic. See every system in its original form. That will give us a originality in our thought process. We need to be civilizational centric and NOT religion centric.

senthil
December 19, 2018
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Without knowing the subject, I recognise the ideological and colonial infections to which Senthil refers... only too well, as it happens. This is a major problem today in all cultures, a kind of post-colonial patriotic revisionism.

This is a serious obstruction, even in north Australia, where local indigenous languages and English are interpreted through the lens of cross-cultural revisionism and contemporary propaganda. There is increasing indigenous misinterpretation and perversion of their own culture and a failure by most Gaelic-Keltic Australians to understand their own culture too.

We all need to appreciate that Christianity, by its very nature, is the force behind colonialism, and that the more modern Zionist-Christianity is an even more powerful variant... the real power behind the new American World Empire.

Now add to that, the four decades of global elitism which has all but consumed science and academia, and we then see how colonialism has expanded exponentially, not declined, as most people believe.

I hope most Hindus keep a clear mind and ignore these attacks on their history and culture, but the evidence tells me they are being tricked into conversion, just as Senthil outlines.
Tony Ryan
December 19, 2018
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Sri.Krishnanunni is absolutely right when he observes that Yoga has its roots in Vedic tradition. Among the earliest Upanishads, references to yoga are found in the Katha, Svetasvatara, and Maitri Upanishads.

Those who feel irritated and furious hearing Yoga has roots in vedic tradition should understand the history of Indian philosophy.

Yoga sutra developed into an exclusively separate faculty under Maharshi Patanjali during the period of six systems of Indian philosophy.

Vyasa wrote a valuable commentary on Yoga known as Yoga Bhashya or Vyasa Bhashya. Bhojaraja’s and Vijnanabhikshus works are also useful manuals on Yoga.

The Yoga is closely associated with Sankhya system.Hence Sri Krishna integrated Sankhya and Yoga as foundations for his Bhagavad Gita. Congrats Krishnanunni ji for this valuable article.

B.S.Harishankar
December 19, 2018
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@senthil.
Your point "lot of difference between vedic and yogic"
First go by the simple meaning of the word "yoga" which is derived from the root word "yuj", which means to join. Here, it means uniting the soul with the Supreme Reality.
Various methods for this unification are adopted such as mantras, yagnas, temple rituals and yoga. While vedas deal primarily with mantras and yagnas for purification of mind, yoga deals with control of body and mind by the use of asanas, Pranayama and psychological analysis of the mind.
The theory of "Prana", is common to Veda as well as Yoga. Refer to Atharva veda (prana sukta, khand 11/sukta 4),where in the importance of prana is explained thus
" pranaya namo yasya sarvidham vashe"
Namaste prana vidhyute, namaste prana varshate "----.
In Pathanjali yoga sutras, wrt Aum, we find the sutra" thasya vachaka pranava "(ref. Samadhi pada verse 27). AUM is the core or essence of vedas, upanishads and Hindu philosophy. No Mantra of vedas is valid without the prefix of Aum to the Mantra.
A few differences between yoga and vedas does not imply that the two are totally disconnected from each other. The goal of veda and yoga are the same, ie moksha.,and Jnana.
Since ancient times to this day vedic yagnas and yoga have been continously practiced across the length and breath of india. Therefore, your contention that Indian civilization is not vedic is not agreed to. Yoga does not emanate from Hindu " fundamentalism", but springs from vedic fundamentals.
Krishna Hari C
December 19, 2018
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@senthil.
What is "reactionary", in correcting distortions of yogic concepts? These corrections are based on solid evidence. If some body makes a claim without evidence, then it may be termed as "reactionary". In this case, archaeological evidence has been provided, so the need to be "reactionary" does not arise.
Originally, the Vedas were only three,rik, yajur and sama. The fourth one, Atharva veda was not separated from these,until Rishi Veda Vyasa stepped into the scene. He reorganised the vedas and systematically categorised into four vedas. Similarly, the rudiments of yoga were already there in the vedas and epics. Pathanjali, like Vyasa, just organised the data already available to him and of course, in the process, he might have added his own creative talent.
Since the essencial data already existed, it cannot be concluded that yoga developed as an independent body of knowledge as claimed by Senthil.
Wrt " reactive Hindu fundamentalism derived from abrahamic fundamentalism"
The tenets of veda and yoga are not products of Hindu fundamentalists. Hindu dharma has been inclusive in outlook in contrast to exclusivist outlook of abrahamic fundamentalism.,which believes that there is only one way - their way, to salvation and knowledge. So it is baseless to conclude that Hindu fundamentalism is derived from abrahamic fundamentalism.
MPK Kutty
December 19, 2018
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Yoga as a a practical tradition already existed in the Veda. Katha Upanishad speaks about it.

@ Tony Ryan, the comparison with the native loss of tradition in Australia is not apt. The Indic tradition has had a long continuous history starting from the Veda and carried forward in Agama, Tantra, Shakti and Bhakti.

Meera Nanda's knowledge of Yoga is clearly limited. Her excursions into the world of the philosophy of science are also limited. That should be the criticism essentially, not whether she was a Templeton Fellow of Religion.

Indic scholars in the last 30 years or so have shown that the Indus Valley Civilisation (now called the Sarasvati Sindhu Civilisation) came after the Vedic period (B.Lal, Kalyanraman and others). Hence the figure of the yogin in meditating posture harks back to Yogic practice.

As pointed out above by one of the commentators Patanjali took over from the work done by Veda Vyasa on the four Vedas. His own Yoga Sutras show Vedic influence.
Dr. Vijaya Rajiva
December 19, 2018
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After reading this article I read two articles by Meera Nanda- the one referred to here and another rejoinder to a criticism of that article by Hindu American Foundation (http://www.openthemagazine.com/article/world/the-ludicrousness-of-taking-back-yoga).

At the beginning of the rebuttal she states 'I will admit one error of fact right away. Thanks to Venkataraman and the legion of others who have expressed their displeasure in the comments on the original article, I realise that I was plain wrong about pranayam, or breath control, when I wrote that “anyone who goes looking for references to… pranayam, neti, kapalbhati or suryanamaskar in classical Vedic literature will be sorely disappointed.” In fact, there are plenty of references to pranayam, or pranayam-like practices, in Vedic literature, including the Maitri Upanishad and the Bhagavad Gita. I was clearly careless here.'

I am not any scholar of vedas or vedic literature but I recognise the Bhagvad Gita to be the most popular hindu text, the one on which even our elected representatives and judges place their hand and swear to uphold the Constitution! If Meera Nandan has not read even the Bhagvad Gita and understood what are its salient contents, do we need to say anything more on her competence to deal with hinduism and hindus?

There is a popular approach followed by advocates in our courts- if you cannot convince them confuse them. Meera seems to be following exactly such a dictate. And the reasons are not far to seek. One has been exposed by the author himself in this article- her association with John Templeton Foundation. The other has been stated by a commentator on her rejoinder: Deconstruction is a marxist invention related to the Frankfurt School which provides a method for denying any facts found inconvenient. Thus deconstruxctionists can allege that ancient India had no literature, no history, no yoga and that Hinduism did not exist until the British invented it.

Meera's admission of a fault is also not be taken lightly. That is another strategy. Spread 100 lies and when they are countered admit to some of them being oversight and still the rest will carry through. And that brings me to the need to expose the liars for what they are, pure pen pushers furthering somebody else's agenda for a price! Absolutely no credibility, self respect or any such human values!
P M Ravindran
December 20, 2018
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Sentil very excellent analysis. As you said rightly Bharat and Sanatana Dharma cannot be confined to one parampara or tradition.
Raghu
December 20, 2018
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@Krishna Hari C,

Your explanation does not answer my question.

If yoga is referenced in vedas, it means it existed independant of vedas. It cannot be taken as a proof of vedic origin of vedas.

Infact, to claim vedic origin for anything being referenced in vedas is totally illogical.

/** While vedas deal primarily with mantras and yagnas for purification of mind, yoga deals with control of body and mind by the use of asanas, Pranayama and psychological analysis of the mind.
**/

This itself proves my point. Both vedas and yoga are different systems.

Vedic yagnyas are about pacifying and winning over the devatas, for creating a divine atmosphere for our living place, village or dhesam. If we study all the vedic rituals, we can understand this simple point. But to understand this , one has to come out of abrahamic mindset and the current abrahamic perception of GOD should be erased from mind.

The kings employ brahmins and do yagyam to strengthen the divine force in his rajyam. The village chiefs do it for his own village.

Contrary to that, Yoga are about inner refinement, and realisation of divinity from within. It is mainly for ascetics and not recommended for grahastha. So it is entirely different from vedic system.

/** AUM is the core or essence of vedas, upanishads and Hindu philosophy. No Mantra of vedas is valid without the prefix of Aum to the Mantra.
**/

So what. Just because both yoga and vedas use AUM does not mean yoga as originating from Vedas.

/** A few differences between yoga and vedas does not imply that the two are totally disconnected from each other. The goal of veda and yoga are the same, ie moksha.,and Jnana.
**/

Wrong. This lie is blindly propogated by every Hindutva person.

Moksha has never been the goal of vedas. The vedic system only speaks about Swarga and Naraga and what a person has to do for his ancestors to get a good place in swarga. In Mahbharatha and Ramayana, Moksha is never spoken about. On the other hand, every kshatriya's ultimate goal is to attain swarga from war field.

On the other hand, the moksha is dealt by Yoga, as an individual goal. Yoga was kept secret and restricted to most eligible / qualified people. It is budha, who prostituted this secret technique to every tom and dick. Only after that, the concept of Moksha became popular.

Apart from the vedic and yogic systems, the tamil sidha traditions existed as separate one.

And the numerous tribal knowledge systems and practices are totally independant of the vedic system.

What unites all these diverse systems are the mutual recognition of each other, incorporating some ideas from each other, localisation of practices, harmony with nature and recognition of existence of GOD.

The SAKYA Budhism and Jainism which were centralised, totalatarian systems went against vedas and GOD. This made all the diverse systems come together and drive them out of bharatha varsha.
senthil
December 20, 2018
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@MPK Kutty

When we spend most of our time in denying an accusation thrown against us, it only indicates we are reactionary.

If you look at all the hindu organisations and hindu intellectuals, they spend most of the times in reacting to the accusations by colonial forces.

No one has ever did any positive work, in reviving our diverse traditions.

This article also as continuation of such reactionary trend.

/** Since the essencial data already existed, it cannot be concluded that yoga developed as an independent body of knowledge as claimed by Senthil.
**/

The data already existed but it is not from a single source. Vedavyasa organised vedas and NOT yogas. right...


senthil
December 20, 2018
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@senthil.
** In Mahabharata, Moksha is never spoken about ".
I am sure, Senthil has not perused the Mahabharata properly.
The Bhagavat Gita is part of the Mahabharata.
Gita chapter 2 /verse 51 states thus" the wise, renouncing the fruits of action, freed from the fetters of births, verily goes to the stainless state. "Here, although the word" moksha ", is not specifically used, the words" stainless state ", suggests the same meaning.
At other verses," words synonymous to moksha is used, like "enters MY Being", and "goes to Brahman". Ref. Chapters 4/verse 9,10,and 39, chapter 5/6, 25,26.chaptdr 8/8,9,10,15. Chapter 18/65, 66 .In fact chapter 18 is titled as "moksha sanyasa yoga".(ref. The Bhagavat Gita by Swami Chidbhavananda, Ramakrishna Tapovanam, Tamilnadu).
For many scholars, Gita is considered as a separate Veda, as it contains the essence of vedic upanishads.

**" moksha has never been the goal of vedas. It only speaks of Swarga /naraga."
Yajur veda does mention moksha thus. Sloka 11-one who learns the process of transdentalism, escapes death - - "
Here too although moksha word do not occur, to escape death means moksha and nothing else. Being in Swarga for a certain period, is also a form of moksha, though not permanent. Hence, senthil's contention that Moksha is not in the vedas and Mahabharata is not agreed to.

Vedas are divided into two - karma khanda and Jnana khanda. Former deals with yagna and rituals and latter with knowledge of upanishads. The vedas, thus, do not merely contain a few lessons on rituals only, but progress step by step further from yagna to philosophy.
Lessons found in 10 std mathematics cannot be found in MSc (mathematics). Nevertheless, basic principles of mathematics are applied at all stages of mathematical studies. The same analogy can be applied to vedas, vedanta and yoga.
Types of moksha (mukti)
1.videha mukti 2.jeevan mukti 3.para mukti.
When we are freed from bodily bondage at death, this state is known as "vedeha mukti". When brahmajnana is achieved while living, it is jeevan mukti.
Para mukti is very rare. Only Avatars are para muktas.
Krishna Hari C
December 21, 2018
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@senthil.
**" this article also continuation of reactionary trend"
Veda vyasa organised vedas and not yoga "

The author of this article, Sri P. Krishnanunni, has challenged Meera Nanda with incontrovertible, scientific archeological evidence. Hence the author has no need to display any reactionary trends or behaviour,as contended by you. On the contrary, your baseless allegation against hindutva associating with abrahamuc fundamentalism, shows clearly, your reactionary attitude towards vedas, yoga and the Gita.

The Gita that contains various types of yoga, was written by veda Vyasa. No one has doubt about this. As pointed out by Sri Harisankar, Sankya and yoga are integrated in the Gita. He has also pointed out that vyasa compiled the "yoga bhasya". Hence your contention that Vyasa did not organise yoga is not agreed to, and does not tally with the scriptural facts.
MPK Kutty
December 22, 2018
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@Senthil. You have made some appalling accusations against those whom you label with contempt hindutva vadis. Let me take just one accusation - that we are reactionary and don't do anything positive. Let me accept that accusation at face value. But I am also going to turn around with one question to you. You come from a family of agriculturalists. Are you still a farmer or have you given up agriculture to take up some other profession? I ask because while you said the Jallikattu ban sent thousands of bulls to slaughter I proved to you that hundreds of thousands of bulls calves and even cows, more horrendously pregnant cows and buffalo were going for slaughter EVEN WHEN THERE WAS NO JALLIKATTU BAN. So did you at any time undertake personally to educate people in village after village about native breed cows, about native breed seeds, about organic methods of doing agriculture by restoring bulls to agriculture and giving up tractors, chemical fertilisers? As an agriculturist you can do so many positive things. I am sure the editor of Vijayvaani will readily carry any article in which you can share with us the positive things you have done in agriculture.
Radha Rajan
December 22, 2018
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@senthil.
** " Abrahamic perception of God should be erased from the mind"
Senthil has to explain what is "Abrahamic perception of God", and in what way it is related to this article and hindutva,which has nothing to do with Abrahamic fundamentalism.
So far as the word "God", is concerned, it is the most widely used word by billions ,and Hindus too have been using it with considerable religious tolerance, although, the word does not describe logically the exact words "nirguna brahman" and "saguna brahman". It is this saguna brahman that is called popularly as God and as "Vishesha Purusha", by Pathanjali. There is nothing Abrahamic in this.
** " it is Bhuddha who prostituted the secret yoga to tom and dick"
A great Hindu king and considered as Avatar of Vishnu, by many Hindus, is not a cheap plagiarist to practice "intellectual prostitution" or do a cinema type dubbing or duplication of yoga. He is a great personality with independent thinking. It is most bleshphemous to defame him and Bhuddhism this way. Don't talk crap without proper research.
Bhuddhism, Jainism and Sikhism were all founded by great Hindu kings. Being influenced among one another, however, did not negate or drive out original creative genius of those founders and all lived peacefully for centuries and continue to thrive in india. Hence Hindu dharma is civilizational centric and not religion centric.
Manoharan
December 22, 2018
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@senthil.
** " Abrahamic perception of God should be erased from the mind"
Senthil has to explain what is "Abrahamic perception of God", and in what way it is related to this article and hindutva,which has nothing to do with Abrahamic fundamentalism.
So far as the word "God", is concerned, it is the most widely used word by billions ,and Hindus too have been using it with considerable religious tolerance, although, the word does not describe logically the exact words "nirguna brahman" and "saguna brahman". It is this saguna brahman that is called popularly as God and as "Vishesha Purusha", by Pathanjali. There is nothing Abrahamic in this.
** " it is Bhuddha who prostituted the secret yoga to tom and dick"
A great Hindu king and considered as Avatar of Vishnu, by many Hindus, is not a cheap plagiarist to practice "intellectual prostitution" or do a cinema type dubbing or duplication of yoga. He is a great personality with independent thinking. It is most bleshphemous to defame him and Bhuddhism this way. Don't talk crap without proper research.
Bhuddhism, Jainism and Sikhism were all founded by great Hindu kings. Being influenced among one another, however, did not negate or drive out original creative genius of those founders and all lived peacefully for centuries and continue to thrive in india. Hence Hindu dharma is civilizational centric and not religion centric.
Manoharan
December 22, 2018
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@Radha Rajan

Thankyou Radhaji.
Dr. Vijaya Rajiva
December 22, 2018
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@Krishna Hari C,

many have expressed the opinion that Bhagawat Gita is laterday insertion in to mahabharatha. So lets look in to the other part of Ithihasa. We do not find moksha in any part of mahabharatha. Even in the Bhishmas discourse to pandavas in his death bed, he do not speak about moksha.

Same with Ramayana.

So please come out of the Hindutva stereotype, which is Budhist ideology in disguise. Budhism is direct enemy to vedic dharma.



senthil
December 24, 2018
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/** Yajur veda does mention moksha thus. Sloka 11-one who learns the process of transdentalism, escapes death - - "
Here too although moksha word do not occur, to escape death means moksha and nothing else.
**/

Escaping death does not mean moksha. There is another term called "Chiranjeevi", which indicates long lived life. Lord Hanuman is a chiranjeevi. Aswathama is chiranjeevi.

senthil
December 24, 2018
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@Radha Rajan ji,

I am not making any accusation here. I am telling the fact based on my experiences in interacting with many people.

For eg, in Vaishnava traditions, there were 74 Acharya Thirumaligais, most of which are in shambles, or discontinued. I have asked many Sri Vaishnavas, on why there is no attempt to revive these thirumaligais. No answer from any of them.

Even in existing ones, it was mostly dysfunct, where they have reduced to mere reciting paasurams.

RSS, as a policy have never cared to revive any of the traditions, and which is where i raise a strong suspicion. They have deliberately let every tradition to get collapsed. Sabarimala is latest, and infact a direct attack by RSS and the forces that had hijacked it now.

If the Hindutva intellectuals are NOT reactive, they would have focussed on reviving the traditions in its originality. But alas, they have given in to the colonial propoganda of "Change according to time", which makes them accept the destruction of these traditions.


senthil
December 24, 2018
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@Radha Rajan ji,

I come from agricultural family, and we are still doing farming.

This season we had cultivated Ground nut, which had incurred a loss of 20,000, due to failed rainfall. Who will compensate us? We cultivated 6 acres of rice, and got a mere 60,000 profit, for 5 months effort. Do you think it is sustainable enough?

Indian government had unleashed a war on the farmers by systematically destroying every traditional farm setup, destroying the village panchayat that supported the farming communities, deliberately suppressed the prices of food artificially.

Plus through the rural employment gaurantee scheme, they had destroyed the labour base for the farmers, by making them work in some idle useless jobs, denying the farmers the labour resources.


How do you expect me to survive this onslaught, unleashed by the urban / metro centric indian government?

P. Chidambaram, who was UPA finance minister had openly said, that they want to move people out of farming and in to urban centres. That is virtually an announcement of war. But the urban people treat this as a part of development, and HIndu intellectuals too support this mass uprootment of our society without thinking about the cultural disruption, destruction of hindu societal setup in every village and many other factors.

No Hindu intellectuals had ever cared about these issues. But they give sermons that "ALL are hindus, and ALL Hindus are equals' kind of bullshit, when the entire farming communities are being paralysed.

Coming to cow protection, we have done enough to save the native breeds, and today there is heavy demand for native cows. A single litre of cow milk costs around 100 rs, and this has made it economically sustainable. A litre of Dhesi Cow ghee costs around 2000 to 3000 rs.

These are positive non-reactive work we have done for the dhesi breeds. We found cow activism by attacking smugglers is impractical and unsustainable, and taken a policy on saving breed than saving cows.

In the jallikattu too, our policy was saving the breed, rather than every single bull. We dont stop farmers from selling the bulls, because it is the Government's duty which has to support the farmers.

On the other hand, what you have done by getting jallikattu ban from supreme court is negative, and destructive, and offensive.

By aligning with PETA and other animal rights activists, you have only aided the enemies of bharath, and enemies of hindu society.
senthil
December 24, 2018
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@Manoharan

If Budhism is so great, why did our forefathers drove them away from bharatha varsha?

Budha is a sakya, and he is called Sakya muni. Please educate yourself with latest information available.

And budha is against vedic dharma, and hence enemy of the vedic society. He being projected as an avatar is rather bullshit. He is NOT even a god.

If you really want to understand what budhism is, try to find out what the kalachakra pooja is and why budhists are doing it.

Hinduism is a just a mask for budhist ideology and the whole bharathiya society is being cheated by this ideology.

Those who really believe in Vedic Dharma, should understand this truth, and safegaurd themselves.
senthil
December 24, 2018
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@Manoharan,

/** Senthil has to explain what is "Abrahamic perception of God", and in what way it is related to this article and hindutva,which has nothing to do with Abrahamic fundamentalism
**/

Just describe your version of GOD, and compare with what our traditional society speaks about god. you will understand how abrahamised you are.
senthil
December 24, 2018
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Senthil you can say what you want now but don't shift goal posts. You said my case in the SC which hot Jallikattu ban sent them to slaughter. Wrong on all counts because you do not do basic home work. Our cattle were going to slaughter even when there was no ban. But those who kept them only and only for jallikattu and not for agriculture and not as king it child of their home chose to make money by selling them for slaughter. Pl call a thing by its tight name. Second I never went to the SC. I went to the high court and my case was DISMISSED. Did you even know that? So all of you LIED. When others filed a petition in the SC my failed petition was sent automatically to the SC WITHOUT my prior knowledge. I rec'd intimation after the petition was moved there. I am fed up with having to answer terrible accusations by people who are driven only by hatred and violence. I am glad you are still a farmer and doing good work. In the end that is what matters. Lastly, I did not allign with Peta. THAT WAS ANOTHER LIE. I work alone. I always work alone because ever since animal care defined my life, I have withdrawn from the human world. I choose not to relate to humans except vets.
Radha Rajan
December 24, 2018
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